Starter solenoid on the way out?

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oliver90owner
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Re: Starter solenoid on the way out?

Post by oliver90owner »

You could use the starting handle for its designed use?

Additionally you could wave it at the other plot holder (while explaining that you do, at least, have an alternative starting aid available if the starter fails to operate or if the battery state of charge is just insufficient to turn over the engine - not for hitting him with it!🙂)
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Re: Starter solenoid on the way out?

Post by Napoleon Boot »

oliver90owner wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:58 am You could use the starting handle for its designed use?

Additionally you could wave it at the other plot holder (while explaining that you do, at least, have an alternative starting aid available if the starter fails to operate or if the battery state of charge is just insufficient to turn over the engine - not for hitting him with it!🙂)
That's what I got it out for! Except for all my cranking, I couldn't get the engine to fire which just made him more smug. I've started with the handle in the past, maybe I need to practice my technique without an audience...
1971 Adderley Park Traveller, "Peggy". 1098 engine, automatic transmission
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bufferzone
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Re: Starter solenoid on the way out?

Post by bufferzone »

I think the redundant solenoid is the one on the bulkhead, I.e. it has been disabled and the one on the starter motor is the one being used. I have a gear reduction starter (Izusu) I installed and went the other way, disabled the solenoid on the starter and use the one on the bulkhead. The tell is The white with red stripe wire from the key would be on that terminal that aligns with the red button on the solenoid in your picture. I can push my red button and start the car. So sorry to say but it does sound like the solenoid on the starter motor is going out.
oliver90owner
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Re: Starter solenoid on the way out?

Post by oliver90owner »

So sorry to say but it does sound like the solenoid on the starter motor is going out.

Possibly, but there are checks to be made before jumping to conclusions. Like the supply to the solenoid.
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Re: Starter solenoid on the way out?

Post by Napoleon Boot »

bufferzone wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:46 pm I think the redundant solenoid is the one on the bulkhead, I.e. it has been disabled and the one on the starter motor is the one being used.
Yep, the solenoid on the bulkhead is basically just being used as a terminal block, the working solenoid is the one piggybacked on the starter (or slung under it, as the pre-engaged starter has been installed upside-down). It seems to be a common modification in the classic Mini world. The new solenoid I ordered arrived in the afternoon post today; I started the car about a dozen times today while working on it and it started right on the turn of the key every time, typically enough...
oliver90owner wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:09 pm Possibly, but there are checks to be made before jumping to conclusions. Like the supply to the solenoid.
I'll have to crawl underneath and inspect the connections on the solenoid, I'll clean them up but while I'm under there it might be as well to fit the new solenoid anyway!

It's never ending, having an old car, isn't it?

Seb
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les
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Re: Starter solenoid on the way out?

Post by les »

Your last comment is very true, the only way to make an old car reliable is to take it all to pieces and rebuild it.

oliver90owner
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Re: Starter solenoid on the way out?

Post by oliver90owner »

I know which I would be checking first. A length of wire with a couple of crimped connections is far cheaper (and easier to fit) than changing the starter motor unnecessarily. Supply starts at the ignition switch? Easy to check, less likely to be at fault but ..... would still have to be changed after the new starter motor were installed, if that is what is actually faulty.

Checking is achieved by simply running a jump wire from the battery to the Lucar connector on the solenoid.
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Re: Starter solenoid on the way out?

Post by Napoleon Boot »

After behaving perfectly for almost a week (with a lot of driving), this evening she refused to start again, so I was able to get the test light out. Connected to the wire from the ignition and earthed on the chassis, turned the key and I got a light first time, so I think the wiring is OK. I'll check it again but I think it is the solenoid. I've got a replacement and it wasn't very expensive so I'll have to try and get underneath and fit it.

Seb
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oliver90owner
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Re: Starter solenoid on the way out

Post by oliver90owner »

I, too, think you are OK with the wiring - but only “think”. I, too, strongly suspect the solenoid, as there is no ‘clunk’ reported when operating the key - if there was, and the starter did not work, the fault could be the solenoid (contacts dirty, burned or poorly adjusted) or the actual motor part of the starter.

(The motor could be checked by jumping with a starting-type heavy duty jump lead, direct to the Motor terminal, when the motor would run (without the starter dog in mesh) if OK.)

Yes, you have continuity (of some description) but you may have tested the circuit at only a couple of Watts ( I have no idea of the type of test lamp you are using)

While test lamps have their place in a testing regime, you have selected the wrong test procedure.

The jump lead I suggested (from the battery to the solenoid) actually tests the item you intend to replace, if faulty. It is a definitive test on the suspected faulty item (as long as the battery is good🙂) and does not require an inference from a different test reslt.

There may well be much less than 1% chance of your test leading you to the wrong conclusion, but there it is - a possibility of getting the wrong result!

I do hope you understand the logic of my testing procedure - it is always adjusted to try to isolate the suspect part before actually doing any work on the vehicle. Proper testing can save money and time in the long run by avoiding making wrong assumptions, leading to replacement of perfectly serviceable parts along with the wasted time and effort so doing.
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Re: Starter solenoid on the way out

Post by Napoleon Boot »

oliver90owner wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 9:14 am While test lamps have their place in a testing regime, you have selected the wrong test procedure.
Ah! Apologies, I had misread the last line of your previous post. You're right that the test lamp is only a few watts - it's just a spare indicator lamp with a couple of lengths of lead and crocodile clips attached. I will try again by taking a heavy duty lead from the battery straight to the motor, and also to the solenoid. It's frustrating as 99% of the time the car starts as it should, so it's hard to tell if it's faulty or not! I suppose I'll just have to keep testing and testing...

Seb
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philthehill
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Re: Starter solenoid on the way out?

Post by philthehill »

If it was me I would ditch the pre-engage starter and fit a standard starter so saving all the hassle and worry of not knowing if it will start or not. You already have the original type solenoid in place.
Phil

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geoberni
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Re: Starter solenoid on the way out?

Post by geoberni »

philthehill wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 4:38 pm If it was me I would ditch the pre-engage starter and fit a standard starter so saving all the hassle and worry of not knowing if it will start or not. You already have the original type solenoid in place.
Phil
Phil
If you look back at the previous page, the pre-engaged is required due to all the other changes that have been made. The automatic box that is fitted doesn't have the space for a long bendix. :-?
it's a case of one thing leads to another......
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philthehill
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Re: Starter solenoid on the way out?

Post by philthehill »

Thanks for pointing that out.

Phil

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