Are hazard lights a hazard to Moggies?

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Oldmogman
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Are hazard lights a hazard to Moggies?

Post by Oldmogman »

Has anyone fitted a hazard light kit, like this one from ESM?

https://www.morrisminorspares.com/searc ... fscr829961

Do you know if it has its own flasher unit for the hazards, or does it utilise the Minor one? I’ve heard that some hazard lights can overload the Minor’s flasher unit and blow it!

Also, how easy are they to fit? How do they connect to the Minor’s indicator wires?
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Re: Are hazard lights a hazard to Moggies?

Post by JOWETTJAVELIN »

The ACC180 as shown in the catalogue appears to be just a copy of the original Lucas kit available to retrofit in the 1970's and 1980's. They are self-contained and easy to fit without damaging the existing wiring (as long as you disregard the instructions to splice wires with Scotchloks). I fitted one to my car as I do a lot of motorway driving on 'smart' motorways. I recommend buying plenty of extra wire in the correct colours to match the ones in the hazard unit, then you can make a sub-loom, and fit a multi-pin plug and socket for easy connection and disconnection.

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Re: Are hazard lights a hazard to Moggies?

Post by Nickol »

I have this fitted to my 68 Traveller - not from ESM but the same model. The instructions and wiring diagrammes are quite clear on how to make the connections to the flasher unit etc. It is only a matter of doing it neatly to not have stray wires dangling everywhere and the unit/switch mounted on the facia rail as mine is, is quite ugly to say the least. In my part of the world though it is a necessary requirement fo ruse on public roads.
Gott schütze mich vorm Sturm und Wind und Autos, die aus England sind.
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geoberni
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Re: Are hazard lights a hazard to Moggies?

Post by geoberni »

The one from ESM looks the same as that sold by several suppliers, as already said, replicas of the Lucas type SFB300.
It does have it's own flasher.
Auto Electrical Spares of Warwick do it, including VAT & Shipping, for over £10 less. Their price is £34.49 in total. ESM will be £44.94.
Of course if you have other things required at ESM, that would affect the overall shipping, but you get the idea.
https://www.autoelectricalspares.co.uk/ ... 1558-p.asp

As to connecting it, I don't share JOWETTJAVELIN's personal opinion of Scotchlocks; he must've had a bad experience with them.
I've had no problems with them over the years, if genuine products, but I have also seen poor quality versions. You can't build a globally utilised connector on a bad product. If you have genuine ones, or other major brand versions, they are perfectly suitable if used correctly, on appropriate quality wiring.
However, if your Moggie hasn't had a replacement loom fitted since build, your wiring may not be up to using that sort of splice connector.
Out of choice I would use a convenient existing break in the wiring if I can find one.

It depends on how competent you are with auto electrics and which indicator version you have, how you go about connecting it.
My car has the (pre 63) DB10 relay type of flasher circuit, so it was easy for me to just connect up my Hazard switch to the terminals of the DB10.
If you have a later model car, then you could locate the Inline connectors where the respective Front and Rear indicators split (wherever that is, I have no idea), and connect at that point using the usual bullet connectors. I assume they're under the bonnet?

It'll come with a diagram, but you can always ask on here if you have a problem with it.
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Oldmogman
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Re: Are hazard lights a hazard to Moggies?

Post by Oldmogman »

Thanks everyone, that's great - good to know it's got its own flasher unit.

And yes, it's not the prettiest of things, is it! But I think safety is more important, and hopefully I'll be able to hide most of it.
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Re: Are hazard lights a hazard to Moggies?

Post by geoberni »

This is a bit out of focus, simply because it's a close up from the background of another photo, hence the strange view. Here's mine tucked underneath the drivers side on my SII...
Not the same mounting, this was a 1970s original that I had in the garage from my youth. But I'm sure a similar thing could be done.
20200606_143450 (2).jpg
20200606_143450 (2).jpg (486.26 KiB) Viewed 2271 times
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Oldmogman
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Re: Are hazard lights a hazard to Moggies?

Post by Oldmogman »

That looks quite discreet!
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Re: Are hazard lights a hazard to Moggies?

Post by Owlsman »

My car is a '62, so is equipped with the DB 10 flasher control unit but it still has the original factory fitted red rear light combo of side light, brake light and indicator. Presumably it's only worth wiring something up to a DB 10 unit for hazard flashers, if the car has been fitted with the later model clear/amber lights.

I have come up with my own 'Heath Robinson' hazard flasher arrangement which is detailed in this threadviewtopic.php?f=1&t=71391. Scroll down to see my car in my garage.

Don't ask me if it works......as I've never broken down and had to switch on my 'hazards', in earnest.........yet :)
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Re: Are hazard lights a hazard to Moggies?

Post by Mark Wilson »

Although I fully understand the desire for a discreet installation this could, in theory, put you at odds with an MOT tester (if you choose to have one). My understanding is that the requirement is for the switch to be visible and operable from the front passenger seat as well as the driver''s seat. Even though not original equipment, if you fit this sort of thing it is supposed to comply with the Construction and Use Regulations. I'm being pedantic, though - mine complies, but it wouldn't worry me too much if it didn't!
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Re: Are hazard lights a hazard to Moggies?

Post by geoberni »

Owlsman wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:54 pm My car is a '62, so is equipped with the DB 10 flasher control unit but it still has the original factory fitted red rear light combo of side light, brake light and indicator. Presumably it's only worth wiring something up to a DB 10 unit for hazard flashers, if the car has been fitted with the later model clear/amber lights.
Although a trafficator build '55 SII, around 20 years ago a PO rebuilt Basil with a DB10 loom/system, leaving the trafficators in place but unpowered.
Then, or subsequently, the DB10 system was bastardised to just operate separate indicators, with the brake lights fed direct from the pressure switch.
I've restored the the DB10 system and trafficators (selectable) to operate from the same Lucas SPB120 switch . Indicators always work, I can just also have trafficators if 'pootling around' locally. I didn't feel trafficators deploying at 50mph would do them much good. :o


Wiring up a Hazard Switch just gives you flashing Red Lights at the read instead of Amber.
Personally, I think any pre-63 car, with full DB10 or the retrofit additional amber indicators, the lamps are so small an additional amber beacon is very desirable for breakdowns, as per the other discussion you linked to.
Here's how I wired mine up, including the restoration of the Trafficators fitted with flashing LED lamps.
Trafficator Circuit.jpg
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geoberni
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Re: Are hazard lights a hazard to Moggies?

Post by geoberni »

Mark Wilson wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:32 am Although I fully understand the desire for a discreet installation this could, in theory, put you at odds with an MOT tester (if you choose to have one). My understanding is that the requirement is for the switch to be visible and operable from the front passenger seat as well as the driver''s seat[. Even though not original equipment, if you fit this sort of thing it is supposed to comply with the Construction and Use Regulations. I'm being pedantic, though - mine complies, but it wouldn't worry me too much if it didn't!
I'm intrigued by one aspect of your comment, and that is
operable from the front passenger seat as well as the driver''s seat
I did a lot of reading on the various regulations before working on my Indicators/Hazards, and I've seen nothing about Hazards being operable from the passenger seat. :-?
Certainly not listed in the MOT requirements.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-inspect ... tion-4-4-1
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Mark Wilson
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Re: Are hazard lights a hazard to Moggies?

Post by Mark Wilson »

Well, I knew I'd read it somewhere, because it affected where I located mine. And here it is:

/www.carlightblog.com/2017/11/03/wheres- ... ht-switch/

"Following the latest standards, passengers now also need to be able to operate the switch for the hazard lights; so today you’ll usually find the button somewhere in the middle of the center console".

Only problem :oops: is that this refers to German regulations... I don't think that this is actually where I saw it (a few years back), but I was clearly misinformed as to the UK requirements. Apologies to anyone I've managed to worry over this!
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Re: Are hazard lights a hazard to Moggies?

Post by JOWETTJAVELIN »

The reason the passenger should be able to operate it is if the driver has a seizure or something. It makes sense and even British cars from the 1970's when these things were being fitted at the factory had the switch within easy reach of the passenger. It's pointless to have the switch hidden out of sight and on the driver's side, plus you need to be able to see the tell-tale. So you are right in what you say.
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Re: Are hazard lights a hazard to Moggies?

Post by geoberni »

Mark Wilson wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:55 pm Well, I knew I'd read it somewhere, because it affected where I located mine. And here it is:

/www.carlightblog.com/2017/11/03/wheres- ... ht-switch/

"Following the latest standards, passengers now also need to be able to operate the switch for the hazard lights; so today you’ll usually find the button somewhere in the middle of the center console".

Only problem :oops: is that this refers to German regulations... I don't think that this is actually where I saw it (a few years back), but I was clearly misinformed as to the UK requirements. Apologies to anyone I've managed to worry over this!
Mark, that's an interesting article, but I am always sceptical of articles that say things like ...
Following the latest standards, passengers now also need to be able to operate the switch for the hazard lights; so today you’ll usually find the button somewhere in the middle of the center console – in any shape or size.
but don't give a reference to the supposed 'Regulations'.
Possibly the choice of the term 'standard' is an indication of an 'Industry standard' amongst manufacturers, rather than any 'Regulation'.

Personally, speaking, I think there may be a 'German Rule' but it would need to be a clause in EU Regulations; there was a brief period in the late 80s where the UK experimented with a 'Dim Dip when the car was running in daylight, but the EU Courts stopped us continuing with it.
http://dastern.torque.net/techdocs/dimdip.html

Most likely reason that switches are now conveniently found on Centre Consoles or up near the Air Vents is principally manufacturing convenience when building both LH and RH drive.
Vehicle standards are not the same all across Europe let alone the world; take Daylight Running Lights (DLRs) for example, apparently in Scandinavian countries, the rear lights are also illuminated when DLRs are in use, but this is not the case in UK and most other countries.

I've trawled the UK Lighting Regulations and can't find anything. It's not in the MOT requirements, and I thought as a final check, I'd look a the Individual Vehicle Approval (IVA) inspection manual for passenger cars. I mean, if you're building a one off, that must be the 'Bible' for what to do.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... hicles.pdf
Section 23 states:
Hazard Warning Lights:
Must operate with the ignition switched on and off.
The hazard warning device must operate all of the direction indicators simultaneously.
The hazard warning device must have a tell-tale warning light (see Note 1).

Note 1: A tell-tale is not required if the front indicators are directly clearly visible to the driver.
So it's not even mandated that the switch must be in reach of the Driver let along the front passenger. :wink:

As to a passenger operating the switch if the Driver becomes incapacitated, .....I can't see that being much use in a Cab where most passengers are in the back, and if I were a passenger in any vehicle where the driver became incapacitated, my first thoughts would be about taking control and stopping the vehicle, not wondering about the Hazard lights. :wink:
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