Sloppy brake & clutch pedal shaft

for those with Series MM sidevalve cars produced between September 1948 and February 1953

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gtt1951
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Sloppy brake & clutch pedal shaft

Postby gtt1951 » Mon May 13, 2019 7:56 pm

Hello Folks,
Latest problem on UFN 456 is the pedal assembly. Having interrogated the forum, I found that a previous owner of this car had asked the same question
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=44449&p=428376&hil ... al#p428376
He either didn't progress the problem, or it has come back to haunt me.
Unlike the 2 sets of spare pedal assemblies I have, this one has a main shaft with a threaded end that goes through the cross member - just like the examples on the ESM and Charles Ware's websites.
It is a LHD pedal as it has the swivel pedal pad.
great play.jpg
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The play is so great, that I thought there was no connection through the chassis leg, so I ran a piece of card through this point and it didn't go past, so these is a shaft.
On the outside of the chassis leg, there is a washer and nut attached to a stub (shaft stub), which is also easily moveable by hand (the assembly can be moved up and down and left and right). I'm assuming that there is a nut under all that gunk.
Loose shaft end.jpg
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the bigger picture
IMG_20190512_171237.jpg
IMG_20190512_171237.jpg (1.99 MiB) Viewed 190 times
Anyone recently worked on such a pedal assembly?
Do I try to get the nut freed and then see if tightening it up clears the fault?

I will have to refill the engine oil (another topic about leaks) before I can drive the car into position on the tarmac drive for further work.

As always, very grateful for any suggestions, George.

'51 Hi-light with Sidevalve 918 engine,
'55 4-dr with 803 engine,
'56 Traveller with 1098 engine.

Dean
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Re: Sloppy brake & clutch pedal shaft

Postby Dean » Mon May 13, 2019 8:11 pm

I didn't need to do anything with my pedals, but my only suggestion would be to take them out. The brake pedal is a pig to connect and disconnect from the master cylinder from memory. To be honest you have nothing to lose by trying to nip up the nut on the chassis leg. But I 'm thinking if you take them out and bush it properly, you'll never need to look at it again. Sorry, that's all I can suggest. :(
My Minor:
A Clarendon Grey 1953 4 Door Series II.
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gtt1951
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Re: Sloppy brake & clutch pedal shaft

Postby gtt1951 » Thu May 16, 2019 12:27 am

Finally got the car onto the tarmac drive and jacked up on an axle stand
IMG_20190515_184036.jpg
IMG_20190515_184036.jpg (2.12 MiB) Viewed 149 times
Now I could have a go at the shaft end securing nut - turned out it was quite loose, like a lot of the fittings on this car - as were the wheel bolts!
end of shaft.jpg
end of shaft.jpg (425.55 KiB) Viewed 149 times
Got the nut off and the washer - which turned out to be the wrong type of washer
shaft washer.jpg
shaft washer.jpg (422.68 KiB) Viewed 149 times
Notice that there is no rectangular hole and this, I think, is the reason that the shaft was sloppy as the securing nut was then 3/8" inch out!
Also, the removed nut is castellated and I can't see any split-pin hole in the shaft - should there be?
shaft castellated nut.jpg
shaft castellated nut.jpg (322.99 KiB) Viewed 149 times
And to add insult to injury, when I checked the master cylinder
IMG_20190515_183014.jpg
IMG_20190515_183014.jpg (2 MiB) Viewed 149 times
It was "dry"! So how did the brakes work when I manoeuvred the car off the garden and onto the drive?
I don't think I will be able to get this car ready for a local Classic Car Show on June 8th :(

'51 Hi-light with Sidevalve 918 engine,
'55 4-dr with 803 engine,
'56 Traveller with 1098 engine.

philthehill
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Re: Sloppy brake & clutch pedal shaft

Postby philthehill » Thu May 16, 2019 8:01 am

There appears to be no bush in the outer part of the chassis leg unless it is hidden under all that grease.

There should be bushes fitted in the chassis leg at both ends of the shaft.

They are available from ESM -
http://www.morrisminorspares.com/clutch ... ft-p829561

You may have to use a 5/8" reamer to allow the shaft to fit through the bushes.

The special washer (Pt No: ACA5228) should be fitted as it helps to alleviate turning pressures against the castellated nut which could lead to the split pin breaking and the nut coming undone.

The washer is available from ESM -
http://www.morrisminorspares.com/clutch ... 28-p829541

There should be a split pin fitted. You may find that the split pin hole in the shaft is blocked by a broken split pin.


gtt1951
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Re: Sloppy brake & clutch pedal shaft

Postby gtt1951 » Thu May 16, 2019 11:53 am

philthehill wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 8:01 am
There appears to be no bush in the outer part of the chassis leg unless it is hidden under all that grease.

There should be bushes fitted in the chassis leg at both ends of the shaft.

They are available from ESM -
http://www.morrisminorspares.com/clutch ... ft-p829561

You may have to use a 5/8" reamer to allow the shaft to fit through the bushes.
Thanks Phil, I don't think there is a bush as there is lots of lateral play in the shaft. I've already been looking at how to remove the pedal assembly and, whilst cleaning out the chassis leg, found a big spring connected to a loop in the chassis leg but the other end just loose.
Found it should be on the pin that holds the foot brake pedal to the master cylinder lever, except the pin has been put in from left to right, instead of right to left and the spring can't be hooked on the 2nd hole in the pin.
More work!

'51 Hi-light with Sidevalve 918 engine,
'55 4-dr with 803 engine,
'56 Traveller with 1098 engine.

gtt1951
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Re: Sloppy brake & clutch pedal shaft

Postby gtt1951 » Thu May 16, 2019 3:13 pm

I've taken the pedals out - the modified LHD clutch pedal and shaft came out easily but had an unusual stiff wire wrapped around the shaft,
IMG_20190516_122438.jpg
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IMG_20190516_122939.jpg
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IMG_20190516_123049.jpg
IMG_20190516_123049.jpg (2.03 MiB) Viewed 108 times
But what is this?
IMG_20190516_123252.jpg
IMG_20190516_123252.jpg (1.44 MiB) Viewed 108 times
the brake pedal was a bit more difficult - had to use bent-nose pliers to try to get the split pin out of the clevis pin
IMG_20190516_124018.jpg
IMG_20190516_124018.jpg (1.55 MiB) Viewed 108 times

'51 Hi-light with Sidevalve 918 engine,
'55 4-dr with 803 engine,
'56 Traveller with 1098 engine.

gtt1951
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Posts: 785
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:01 pm
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Re: Sloppy brake & clutch pedal shaft

Postby gtt1951 » Thu May 16, 2019 3:24 pm

In the struggle to get the split-pin out, the whole pedal and push-rod came out!
IMG_20190516_124600.jpg
IMG_20190516_124600.jpg (1.39 MiB) Viewed 107 times
The clevis pin wouldn't come out so, after using my trusty butane blow-lamp, it did come out
IMG_20190516_131436.jpg
IMG_20190516_131436.jpg (1.92 MiB) Viewed 107 times
IMG_20190516_131736.jpg
IMG_20190516_131736.jpg (2.58 MiB) Viewed 107 times
The chassis leg does have a bush on the inside wall (nearest the gearbox), but no bush in the outside wall of the leg
IMG_20190516_130118.jpg
IMG_20190516_130118.jpg (1.1 MiB) Viewed 107 times
There is no split-pin hole to lock the castellated nut in place, as this is a modified LHD clutch pedal.
I'll either have to fit a lock-nut or get another clutch pedal from ESM
LHD clutch pedal shaft.jpg
LHD clutch pedal shaft.jpg (1.2 MiB) Viewed 107 times
Circled in yellow is the welded-on tail to attach the clutch actuating rod to (a bent piece of long studding) and the magenta circle shows the castellated nut, but no hole in the shaft.
In any case, looks like I'll have to replace the pushrod and yoke connector (comes with new clevis and split pins) from ESM.

'51 Hi-light with Sidevalve 918 engine,
'55 4-dr with 803 engine,
'56 Traveller with 1098 engine.

philthehill
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Re: Sloppy brake & clutch pedal shaft

Postby philthehill » Thu May 16, 2019 6:09 pm

Thank you for the updates.
I would replace the clutch pedal with the correct item to save any more problems.

Fit a new bush or bushes to the chassis leg.


RobThomas
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Re: Sloppy brake & clutch pedal shaft

Postby RobThomas » Thu May 16, 2019 6:21 pm

I wonder if the old bushes are still in the other chassis leg? :D
Cardiff, UK

gtt1951
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Re: Sloppy brake & clutch pedal shaft

Postby gtt1951 » Thu May 16, 2019 8:23 pm

RobThomas wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 6:21 pm
I wonder if the old bushes are still in the other chassis leg? :D
I'll have a look after I get back from a short break away.
[got a picture from when I first took off the tunnel cover - don't know how the clutch pedal would have come through the floor, unless another bit of metal has now been added
Left-hand chassiss leg.jpg
Left-hand chassiss leg.jpg (479.41 KiB) Viewed 85 times
Are these the same bushes that go inside the brake pedal?

George.

'51 Hi-light with Sidevalve 918 engine,
'55 4-dr with 803 engine,
'56 Traveller with 1098 engine.

philthehill
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Re: Sloppy brake & clutch pedal shaft

Postby philthehill » Thu May 16, 2019 10:10 pm

All four (two in the chassis leg and two in the brake pedal) bushes are the same Pt No: AAA1423.


gtt1951
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Re: Sloppy brake & clutch pedal shaft

Postby gtt1951 » Thu May 16, 2019 11:37 pm

philthehill wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 10:10 pm
All four (two in the chassis leg and two in the brake pedal) bushes are the same Pt No: AAA1423.
Ah, that is the Moss Europe part number, ESM and Bull Motif part number is COM104, Charles Ware is CBS131, GS Jones CBS148 (pair).
Thank you Phil for confirming that these are all the same bushes.
The 2 inside the brake pedal look OK, the Chassis leg, on the other hand, only seems to have one (nearside) and the left chassis leg looks to be devoid of both bushes.
I'll order replacement parts when I get back from my 3 day stay near Weymouth, followed by a 4 day stay at Redruth. Not much hope in getting this car to the local Classic Car display on June 8th then! :(
George.

'51 Hi-light with Sidevalve 918 engine,
'55 4-dr with 803 engine,
'56 Traveller with 1098 engine.

philthehill
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Re: Sloppy brake & clutch pedal shaft

Postby philthehill » Fri May 17, 2019 8:13 am

AAA1423 is the BMC part number as shown in the BMC parts list.

It is rare that the bushes fitted to the brake pedal wear - it is usually the shaft that wears.

The same with the bushes in the chassis rail - they rarely need replacing.


gtt1951
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Re: Sloppy brake & clutch pedal shaft

Postby gtt1951 » Fri May 17, 2019 12:05 pm

Phil,
Its interesting that Moss Europe use the BMC part numbers in their catalogue.
My chassis rail, unfortunately, does not have a bush in the outer wall and that is why the shaft was sloppy.
I'll be buying a replacement "new" clutch pedal from ESM when I get back next week.
Many thanks for your help,
George

'51 Hi-light with Sidevalve 918 engine,
'55 4-dr with 803 engine,
'56 Traveller with 1098 engine.

philthehill
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Re: Sloppy brake & clutch pedal shaft

Postby philthehill » Fri May 17, 2019 1:16 pm

When you have fitted the new bush there is a possibility that you may have to ream the bush to 5/8" for the shaft to fit through - though a 5/8" reamer will pass through a new unfitted bush so you may be lucky.

The bush is listed as out of stock at MOSS but available from ESM.



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