What would that be?

for those with Series MM sidevalve cars produced between September 1948 and February 1953

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pradeepprabhua
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Re: What would that be?

Postby pradeepprabhua » Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:31 pm

Presently the valve tappet clearance is set as per the manual to 0.018 inch at cold...
I saw one of the posts where it says " Tappets 0.017" hot, Impossible! 0.018" cold .iam a bit confuse :roll: d .. please advice what must be the setting at cold..

Also would want to mention that the main bearing stud bolts that were made are of " EN8 Bright Mild Steel '[frame]Image[/frame]
[*]Pradeep Prabhu[*]
1951 Series MM - 2door - side valve head


pradeepprabhua
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Re: What would that be?

Postby pradeepprabhua » Fri Oct 31, 2014 4:37 pm

the new studs (bright in color) pics to the old studs which were in the main block.[frame]Image[/frame]

below picture - as mounted on the main block bed.[frame]Image[/frame]
[*]Pradeep Prabhu[*]
1951 Series MM - 2door - side valve head


pradeepprabhua
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Re: What would that be?

Postby pradeepprabhua » Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:44 pm

Hi guys?

Any information on what must be the valve tappet settings - when cold??
[*]Pradeep Prabhu[*]
1951 Series MM - 2door - side valve head


mike.perry
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Re: What would that be?

Postby mike.perry » Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:24 pm

Tappet setting = 0.018 cold.
Did you fit new big end nuts and bolts? the ones in the photo look knackered.
See http://seriesmm.mmoc.org.uk. Technical Info for settings
[sig]3580[/sig]

colin addison
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Re: What would that be?

Postby colin addison » Sat Nov 01, 2014 5:29 pm

Pradeep
I certainly would not use mild steel on the big-end studs.
Recently I organised making some sets of cylinder head studs (x13) for the side-valve engine and we used EN24T which is considerably tougher than mild steel. I would apply this thinking to all the studs/bolts taking compression strain. Talk to suppliers in India, failing that contact ESM here in UK.
best of luck
Colin

pradeepprabhua
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Re: What would that be?

Postby pradeepprabhua » Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:38 pm

Hello,
The big end bolts are replaced with new ones and are of hardened steel, the one in the photo are the stretched ones..
The crankshaft main bearing studs as shown in last picture are of steel material EN8 ...
Got the studs done from one of my friends workshop and he said if required of hardened steel then the same studs will have to go through hardening process etc etc.
Will talk to him and get them redone with hardened steel or else
The hardened steel rods of required size are available and will have to get them done as required.

Thanks :)
[*]Pradeep Prabhu[*]
1951 Series MM - 2door - side valve head


TvdWerf
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Re: What would that be?

Postby TvdWerf » Sun Nov 02, 2014 11:33 am

Where did you buy this new big end bolts?
I had also a few stretched, and took them from my spare engine, who is waiting for a rebuild.
(when I have all the parts double ;) )
And the M8 fine bolts, for adjusting the valve clearance, when they have a small pit in it from the old valve, I like to put some new in it.
But where to buy?
MM '51 LHD sidevalve

pradeepprabhua
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Re: What would that be?

Postby pradeepprabhua » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:23 am

Hi,
Removed the MS EN8 bolts from main bearings, my friend will get them done with the EN24T material. Thanks Mr Mike for the confirmation on the clearances.

Hello Mr ted, Got the Big end Bolts of the shelves from the known company "TVS" which manufactures nuts, bolts and related stuff. Had to go with new nuts though, the original thread pitch is different.
Also will be getting similar to original ones done (as spares) from my friends place. his family is in tools and die making business since 4 decades and is helping me out.

Regarding the valve clearance bolts if the pitt/dent is within limits (less than a mm) you can go for "fine" grinding on the bolts head surface.
I have one full set as spares which i brought from a scrapped engine.

regards
[*]Pradeep Prabhu[*]
1951 Series MM - 2door - side valve head


pradeepprabhua
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Re: What would that be?

Postby pradeepprabhua » Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:34 am

Hi,
back in town and did the following.
1. Got the main bearing studs and the big end bolts with EN24T material ( made with CNC machine). Fixed them in engine and torqued then as per the tech datasheet.
2, Cylinder head fixed and torqued the nuts as per the tech data sheet.
3. Filled Oil, radiator fixed, external electrical water pump fixed, distributor fixed, ignition coil connected.
4. Carburetor with air filter connected, fuel pump connected. Battery connected.
5. Cranked the engine and it started with a little throttle by hand. run at low revolutions.
6. ignition sequence 1342 ok.
7. tried to adjust the idling screw on carb for idling but could not. by throttling manually the revolutions go higher but not much.
8. Stopped the engine. loosened the distributor screw, started the engine again with little throttle and rotated the distributor say approx10 degrees (iam guessing here). the revolutions pick up. did want to go further as i had read in some threads on going advanced and causing head problems. PLEASE NOTE THERE ARE NO TIMING MARKINGS ON THE HEAD.

I need your help on how to adjust the distributor. also provide some links where i can read about it.
What checks you would recommend next?
[*]Pradeep Prabhu[*]
1951 Series MM - 2door - side valve head


pradeepprabhua
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Re: What would that be?

Postby pradeepprabhua » Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:41 am

Hi,
The engine is not fixed/mounted in the car yet. i would want to finish the RUNNING IN keeping it out.
will be getting a industrial FAN for better cooling as the air passing through is not sufficient and not effective cooling when inside the car..

The engine is in the garage area and the ambient temperature goes around 35 - 36 degree Celsius. Final tuning will be made after the RUNNING IN is completed and mounted into the car.

[frame]Image[/frame][frame]Image[/frame]
[*]Pradeep Prabhu[*]
1951 Series MM - 2door - side valve head


TvdWerf
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Re: What would that be?

Postby TvdWerf » Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:33 pm

What I did in your situation, is first paint the engine in the original colors, when the engine is running, and still outside the car, the standard green paint will finish him.
Some black on the starter and filling pipe will do the rest.
What I see, your radiator is copper, mine not, and my spare one also not, is this a local difference, or a later repair?[frame]Image[/frame]
MM '51 LHD sidevalve

pradeepprabhua
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Re: What would that be?

Postby pradeepprabhua » Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:26 am

hi,
yes i agree should have done that. However will do that later.
the engine along with gear box was replaced with standard herald engine aproxx 20-22 years back ( was in school then with less or no idea why was it removed). this radiator got it done locally with the measurement that i got from a SVH car kept in a museum. the upper tank is of Brass.

DO I NEED TO RE-TORQUE HEAD NUTS AFTER ENGINE HEATING.?
Can anyone suggest the adjustment procedure to be made in distributor to get the advance timing right.

thanks and regards
[*]Pradeep Prabhu[*]
1951 Series MM - 2door - side valve head


TvdWerf
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Re: What would that be?

Postby TvdWerf » Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:27 am

I only remember from early years, after 500 miles re-torque the bolts and nuts, but this was Toyota with asbestos between block and head.
Since the change to metal, it was not needed anymore.
Maybe Mike knows it.
MM '51 LHD sidevalve

pradeepprabhua
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Re: What would that be?

Postby pradeepprabhua » Tue Jan 13, 2015 3:46 am

hello,
have a bad news, Started the engine with required cooling fan. start OK , lube oil pressure between 30-35 psi.
Then adjusted the carb throttle screw and increased the revolution but released the fuel is a bit rich.
Went back to normal with the carb, started the engine again, rotated the dizzy anticlockwise and got a good tick over with oil pressure 40-45 Psi. All went well until 5-7 minutes, the engine started skipping (kind of misfiring) a bit. gave throttle to maintain the RPM but came down and the oil pressure was 20 PSI.
stopped the engine and started again with little throttle manually and oil pressure 20 PSI to check and observed the following

A. removed plug wire 4 - NO CHANGE IN RPM
B. removed plug wire 3 - NO CHANGE IN RPM
C. removed plug wire 2 - ENGINE DIES-STOPS
Started again
D. removed plug wire 1 - ENGINE DIES-STOPS

There is good blue spark on all 4 plugs. Number 3 and 4 are not firing :( :( . Is it that i was afraid of head gasket blowing :(

Should i open the head or before that re-tighten?. do a compression test ? - unfortunately do not have a tester and will have to borrow and very few people will lend their special tools.

will wait for your advice and recommendations.

regards Pradeep
[*]Pradeep Prabhu[*]
1951 Series MM - 2door - side valve head


drivewasher
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Re: What would that be?

Postby drivewasher » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:41 am

Do a compression test first, just to confirm your theory


colin addison
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Re: What would that be?

Postby colin addison » Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:09 pm

I had this happen on my recently rebuilt engine. This also was not firing on 3 and 4 (?). (not sure if the picture is added, but it shows the gasket split between cylinders and the loose bit trapped under a valve).
So. you might check the compressions, or just whip the head off.
I think when fitting a new gasket you should allow the engine to warm up and then re-torque. I have an involvement with a very old Ford Model AA (also side valve) truck and these are the exact instructions they give when fitting a new gasket.
And then also re-torque at 500 miles. You cannot re-torque too often!
You will find that at the first re-torque with a composite gasket you will get around half a turn of the torque wrench, on subsequent re-torques you will get little or no movement of the wrench.
best of luck
Colin

chesney
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Re: What would that be?

Postby chesney » Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:43 pm

With side valves particularly, it's great practice to re-torque relatively often. There's no need to remove rocker covers, or reset the valve gaps to do it, it couldn't really be easier. I've worked on primarily Second World War American side valves, and was common practice for me as part of a service. The pain is with the jeeps, where the rear three nuts/bolts are obscured by the body, meaning limited access for torque wrench (and people say they're well designed :lol:).

pradeepprabhua
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Re: What would that be?

Postby pradeepprabhua » Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:49 pm

Thanks mr Drivewasher (sorry dont know ur name), Mr Colin & Mr Chesney.

With all four plugs removed, Here are the results of compression test :)

Cylinder No 1 - 135 Psi
Cylinder No 2 - 140 Psi
Cylinder No 3 - 138 Psi
Cylinder No 4 - 138 Psi

What next ?

Regards
[*]Pradeep Prabhu[*]
1951 Series MM - 2door - side valve head


pradeepprabhua
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Re: What would that be?

Postby pradeepprabhua » Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:19 pm

Hello guys,
Got the problem , it was the HT Lead interchanged between 3 & 4 which went completely unnoticed by me (thanks to my little nephew who changed these as a play thing).
It's running fine now.
Thanks and regards
[*]Pradeep Prabhu[*]
1951 Series MM - 2door - side valve head


drivewasher
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Re: What would that be?

Postby drivewasher » Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:48 pm

chesney wrote:With side valves particularly, it's great practice to re-torque relatively often. There's no need to remove rocker covers, or reset the valve gaps to do it, it couldn't really be easier. I've worked on primarily Second World War American side valves, and was common practice for me as part of a service. The pain is with the jeeps, where the rear three nuts/bolts are obscured by the body, meaning limited access for torque wrench (and people say they're well designed :lol:).

Crowsfoot open end attachment with square drive for torque wrench



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