Marine Engine Help...

for those with Series MM sidevalve cars produced between September 1948 and February 1953
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nic-clark
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Marine Engine Help...

Post by nic-clark »

Hi everyone...

We've just purchased a 1959 wooden launch that was fitted with a Morris engine and I wonder if anyone would be able to help with a few questions.

First, some help with the age of the engine - I haven't found a number but photo is below. It's sidevalve and has a solex updraught carb. I am wondering if the engine is older than the boat?

First Image is here: https://f5f411aa7acd0748b473-49e196f59f ... aba7dc.jpg

Second Image here: http://www.woodenships.co.uk/wp-content ... 0x600.jpeg

The engine was originally megneto driven but the coil windings are no good any more so an external coil has been added - is this peculiar to the marine version or did the cars have magnetos too? Does anyone know where to get them fixed?

Lastly, the oil filter which you can see in the first picture constantly drips oil from the cover plate. There is a copper washer inside which I guess is now worn. Again, did the car engine have this type of filter and can anyone suggest where to get a new seal?

It's a beautiful little engine that is in great condition despite being a bit neglected for several years. It starts first time and runs smoothly and quietly - it managed a 10 hour trip up the river to it's new home near Marlow despite not being started for months.

Any other insights are really welcome!

Thanks.
LouiseM
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Re: Marine Engine Help...

Post by LouiseM »

Welcome to the messageboard. It looks like a Vedette engine: http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f= ... it=vedette

I'll move your post to the Series MM forum as someone there may be able to help.


Eric - 1971 Traveller
smithskids
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Re: Marine Engine Help...

Post by smithskids »

Hello Nic, where are you based? if you are down south Mike Perry is your man. I would think he will spot this pretty soon. :D
nic-clark
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Re: Marine Engine Help...

Post by nic-clark »

Hi,
Thanks for the reply - it'd be great to find someone who knows about them!

I'm in Marlow so south-east.

Thanks!
biomed32uk
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Re: Marine Engine Help...

Post by biomed32uk »

There are various companies around that specialise in magneto repair, I had a Lucas one rewound from one of my Lister D engines, cant remember their name at present, but its certainly possible to get the mag sorted.
mike.perry
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Re: Marine Engine Help...

Post by mike.perry »

The engine looks like a Morris 8 based Vedette, I have one in my garage. There should be a date stamp on the dynamo or starter motor, mine is a Vedette Mk II, 1948. I am missing the crank start mechanism and some pipework
I am in Lower Earley, East Reading so just up the road.[frame]Image[/frame][frame]Image[/frame][frame]Image[/frame]
What is the boat, as it is 1959 and wooden it must qualify for the Thames Traditional Boat Rally at Henley
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nic-clark
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Re: Marine Engine Help...

Post by nic-clark »

That's it - thanks for the pics! That is exactly my engine, as you say mine has some extra pipework etc. I'll have a look at the date stamp when I am next at the marina.

The boat is a 1959 Fairey Faun, built of laminated Agba ply. Ours is hull 3 so a prototype we think. It's been through a fair bit - once had a cabin top that rotted out, originally outboard driven I think. It has lived on Eel pie island for a long while and had some work done that varies in quality including a big repair to the side where water sitting on a bench seat rotted the ply. The repair is sound but does not use original wood so we will be painting her at some point this year I think unless I can muster up the courage to attack the repair and infill a piece of Agba veneer! Photos from the recent advert are still here: http://www.woodenships.co.uk/small-craf ... or-launch/

I did wonder if the engine was older! It runs beautifully. I will look into the boat rally - hadn't crossed my mind.

Do you know about the gearboxes? It is a morris box, gear driven with a brake band but it currently has great difficulty staying in / finding neutral which makes starting etc a little tricky sometimes.

I do have the original manual for the engine, gearbox and magneto but this fault is not listed.

I think the oil filter seal is the most pressing issue.

Thanks for the help so far!
colin addison
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Re: Marine Engine Help...

Post by colin addison »

Nic
Copper washers are readily available via the Net, just google etc. I bought some for the sump and gear box plugs recently for my MM.
Alternatively the existing one can be softened by heating to red and allowing to cool naturally, ie don't chuck it in water. It will need to be in reasonable condition of course.
best of luck, sounds like an interesting project?
Colin
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Re: Marine Engine Help...

Post by nic-clark »

Thanks I will have a look for one :-) Didn't realize that they could be heated either!

Yes an interesting project indeed - I was really worried that the oil leak was terminal until I found the leak from the filter. It otherwise seems in really good condition. It's been quite neglected for a few years - I've found cans of mixed petrol station oil in the boat ranging from 5w40 upwards and it still runs well!

Thanks.
mike.perry
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Re: Marine Engine Help...

Post by mike.perry »

Marine engines are very under stressed, it probably never cruises above 2000rpm.
I do not know much about marine gearboxes except that it is an epicyclic box with just forward neutral and reverse and no need for a clutch. I think that it should be fairly simple to repair, subject to parts availability. I believe that the same box fits both the side valve and A Series Vedette engines. John Evans on Hayling Island repairs marine boxes
I do not think that my engine will ever run again, it was a barn find, propping open a barn door. It is seized solid and the water passages were choked with rust, I intend giving it a cosmetic restoration if I can get the bolts undone. If a gearbox comes my way.....
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nic-clark
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Re: Marine Engine Help...

Post by nic-clark »

Thanks very much for all the help so far guys - what a great community! Thanks for the boat rally pointer Mike - they were really keen that the boat is included as there are very few left apparently and still fewer boats with the morris engine.

Iv'e found a company who repair magnetos and will do mine for under £100 and also a company who will supply the copper washers for the oil filter cannister.

Cheers, Nic
mike.perry
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Re: Marine Engine Help...

Post by mike.perry »

It looks like an excellent day boat, all you need is a picnic hamper and some sunshine. :)
There is another boat rally at Beale Park, Lower Basildon, upstream from Pangbourne, not sure of the dates. When you are at rallies it may be worth poking your nose under the engine covers of slipper launches and other period boats, there could be some interesting motors
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mike.perry
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Re: Marine Engine Help...

Post by mike.perry »

Beale Park Boat Rally is this weekend so may be too late to enter. Do you have a trailer?
I notice that the steering wheel is very similar to the wheel fitted to Morris Minors between 1948 and 1956 except that your's has 5 bar spokes and the Minor has 4 bar spokes. If it has a Woodruff key fitting then they may be interchangeable The Minor wheel centre/horn push may well fit. If you would like me to look over the boat I can bring my spare steering wheel to try out
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nic-clark
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Re: Marine Engine Help...

Post by nic-clark »

Hi,

I wondered if it was a Morris Steering wheel! Yes I'd be really happy for you to come and see - she's at harleyford marina. I'm around most evenings and weekends, is there a PM system on here and I'll send you my number?

I've started to do some work on the engine and electrical system - removed the solex carb for some work - it is currently held together with a big jubilee clip and weeps fuel from the gasket (which isn't supposed to be there apparently). Also needs some modification for the boat safety certificate.

I couldn't find a date on the dynamo or starter but it does have a number 50 stamped on it as well as model number etc?

Does anyone know about small air filters / flame traps for carbs - I need one for the safety certificate!

Cheers!
smithskids
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Re: Marine Engine Help...

Post by smithskids »

Hi Nic, any air filter type like the old
austin healy sprite would suffice. They have a gauze that acts as a flame trap. Early sunbeam alpines are the same, there are plenty around. Cheers smithskids. :D
mike.perry
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Re: Marine Engine Help...

Post by mike.perry »

My carb is missing a flame trap and drip tray. Did you know that in those days you had to carry a bucket of sand, no fire extinguishers!
PM Click on poster's name, select PM
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mike.perry
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Re: Marine Engine Help...

Post by mike.perry »

PM sent
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nic-clark
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Re: Marine Engine Help...

Post by nic-clark »

smithskids wrote:Hi Nic, any air filter type like the old
austin healy sprite would suffice. They have a gauze that acts as a flame trap. Early sunbeam alpines are the same, there are plenty around. Cheers smithskids. :D
Great call - found just the one I think! Thanks very much indeed :-)

Does anyone know hot to get the magneto off the block by any chance? I appreciate that it's different on the vedette. I've undone the three flange bolts but it won't pull out. There's a little cover on the end of the engine that gives access to the timing chain and the mag is driven from a cog there. Does it unbolt or just need a whack?? Does it affect timing?

Thanks!
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Re: Marine Engine Help...

Post by nic-clark »

Just in case anyone is interested, I have been keeping a blog of the restoration of the boat and the engine (although there is little to do with it really)

The boat is nearly finished and I can't wait to get the little Vedette started again!

Thanks for all your help so far, I'm sure there will be more questions to come!

The blog is at faireyfaun.blogspot.com

Cheers,

Nic
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