Series MM split screen installation

for those with Series MM sidevalve cars produced between September 1948 and February 1953

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manlyvaleaussie
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Series MM split screen installation

Postby manlyvaleaussie » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:04 am

I know that this subject has been hashed and re-hashed, but please bear with me one more time. Yuma , Arizona where I currently reside is a very small town and although we have excellent auto glass installers here nobody has even heard of a Morris Minor let alone seen one and most certainly have never installed the split screen windscreen as fitted to my 1952 Series MM. We have read extensively about how to do it, including the original service manual but still we struggle to figure it out, does anyone have or know of an easily understood written description or perhaps, ideally a video. As always any and all help will be greatly appreciated. Paul Follett. manlyvaleaussie

JohnV
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Re: Series MM split screen installation

Postby JohnV » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:33 am

Just to point out here that there were (at least) two types of Minor split-window screens.

"EARLY" (Sep 1948-Oct 1949)

The kind used from Sep 1948 to Oct 1949 only (to RHD 26102, LHD 10607) has an inner metal moulding, chrome strips that fit over the inner lip of the windscreen surround, and a totally different rubber gasket to the kind used later.

I just spent a morning with the fantastic Frank McDonough, who owns the third-oldest surviving Minor. He walked me through the steps for that early one, which I will transcribe and add photos to for a set of instructions (sooner or later, sigh).

"LATER" (Oct 1949- ??)

Yours is the later kind, and I apologize for hijacking the thread, but wanted to point out that early-car owners have totally different stuff.

Look forward to reading about how the later split-screens are installed.

And, finding out whether the same setup was used from Oct 1949 through the end of Series II split-screen production in 1955 ??
I have two Minors in upstate New York. One is the 1961 Traveller my dad bought new that year in London, where I was born. It's had a hard life but is still running cheerfully at 54K miles. The second is the oldest Minor confirmed to survive in North America, a LHD high-light Tourer built in April 1949. It's a total basket case, but will be restored over the coming years.

manlyvaleaussie
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Re: Series MM split screen installation

Postby manlyvaleaussie » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:12 pm

Thank you John and maybe you've raised an issue I hadn't considered, do you know if the chrome surrounds were the same for the early and late split screens. The reason for the question is that my 1952 was missing the windscreen it it's entirety and so I took the chrome strips from the 1949, car number 8335 that I have, also saved the glass, rubber was like the hardest plastic that you've ever encountered so it came out in little chunks. Paul Follett. manlyvaleaussie

geoberni
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Re: Series MM split screen installation

Postby geoberni » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:26 pm

Not quite a high-jack of this topic as it's related.
The manual mentions 'inside windscreen mouldings' for early windscreens, which I assume to be all MM/SII but I've never seen them and my '55 doesn't have any screw holes where such items might have been fitted.

Does any MM Series II owner recognise there mouldings?
Windscreen.JPG
Windscreen.JPG (65.35 KiB) Viewed 389 times
Basil the 1955 series II

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alanworland
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Re: Series MM split screen installation

Postby alanworland » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:09 pm

I must have the later fitting (late 1952) and have no holes that could have taken self tappers.
I remember the 'fun' we had fitting it! Write up on here.

Alan
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manlyvaleaussie
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Re: Series MM split screen installation

Postby manlyvaleaussie » Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:37 am

To geoberni, the 1949 MM Low Light from which I got my chrome strips for the outside had the inside mouldings as described in the manual, as per johnv these were only fitted from 1948 to October 1949, my 1952 MM does not have them. manlyvaleaussie

JohnV
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Re: Series MM split screen installation

Postby JohnV » Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:04 am

Paul

Your 1949 car will have the "Early" screen installation I described, but your 1952 will have a totally different installation.

Your later car will not have had the inner metal surrounds that screw into the frame, and it likely doesn't have the screw holes in the inside of the frame that would accommodate them. Also, its chrome trim will fit into a completely different profile of screen rubber on the outside, rather than onto the flange on the frame.

The parts you took off your 1949, however, are now quite rare. A set recently went for £100 in the UK, so take care of them ... and do NOT lose the joiner clips between the two halves!

As for glass, it will serve as a template but unless it's totally unclouded you will likely want to have new ones made. I'm told 5-mm glass is much easier to fit than 6-mm which was original.

Hope this helps ....

best, jv.

manlyvaleaussie wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:12 pm
...do you know if the chrome surrounds were the same for the early and late split screens. The reason for the question is that my 1952 was missing the windscreen it it's entirety and so I took the chrome strips from the 1949, car number 8335 that I have, also saved the glass, rubber was like the hardest plastic that you've ever encountered so it came out in little chunks.
I have two Minors in upstate New York. One is the 1961 Traveller my dad bought new that year in London, where I was born. It's had a hard life but is still running cheerfully at 54K miles. The second is the oldest Minor confirmed to survive in North America, a LHD high-light Tourer built in April 1949. It's a total basket case, but will be restored over the coming years.

JohnV
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Re: Series MM split screen installation

Postby JohnV » Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:08 am

Geoberni

Thanks for posting the manual excerpt. What's shown there are the "Early" type I described, used ONLY from Sep 1948 to Oct 1949 (to RHD 26102, LHD 10607).

You'll see they have the inner metal moulding shown that screws into the windscreen frame attached to the body. It also shows the chrome strips that fit over the inner lip of the windscreen surround, and a totally different rubber gasket to the kind used later.

Series MM cars from Nov 1949 and ALL Series II cars did NOT use this installation. Hope this helps.

best, jv.
geoberni wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:26 pm
Not quite a high-jack of this topic as it's related.
The manual mentions 'inside windscreen mouldings' for early windscreens, which I assume to be all MM/SII but I've never seen them and my '55 doesn't have any screw holes where such items might have been fitted.

Does any MM Series II owner recognise there mouldings?Windscreen.JPG
I have two Minors in upstate New York. One is the 1961 Traveller my dad bought new that year in London, where I was born. It's had a hard life but is still running cheerfully at 54K miles. The second is the oldest Minor confirmed to survive in North America, a LHD high-light Tourer built in April 1949. It's a total basket case, but will be restored over the coming years.

kennatt
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Re: Series MM split screen installation

Postby kennatt » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:44 am

it really isn't that difficult.just takes time and at least two people.there has been many descriptions of how by many on here.I've done three .The main problem initially is getting the two glasses internal metal separator into position.This is the way I found easiest/ Fit both glasses to rubber then with two or three helping to hold all in place, fit the whole lot from THE INSIDE.the two glasses will be just touching at the centre. Then use two or three straps fitted through the gap in the center and right round the frame and connected up to form loops round the glasses and frame, roof rack straps with the buckle are ideal. gently tighten the straps so that the glasses are pulled apart.do a little at a time,One I had to leave overnight to let the glass and rubber settle in. Once the glasses are far enough apart to fit the internal seararator,put it into position and remove the straps. If they are too tight to slide out just cut them with a blade to remove.Then you can fit the outer chrome strip and its in. BUT the new rubbers are hopeless, None fit properly at the corners ,copies of copies etc So they need to be glued down. The next bit is fitting the chrome finisher,can't be done first. Best of luck with that one ,that's the best :o :o bit don't damage ,bend or throw the old one they are unobtainable and cost a fortune second hand If and its a big if you can find one.
If its damaged or missing just fill the slot with black sealant,it dosent need to be there is not a locking strip, just cosmetic.

regarding sealant,if you get a leak,very common problem. If you look at the rubber from the inside you will see that it's easy to lift up away from the frame and the tip of a sealant gun slides underneath so you can run a bead of sealant all the way round the rubber up onto the frame . Good luck with iot.

kennatt
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Re: Series MM split screen installation

Postby kennatt » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:44 am

it really isn't that difficult.just takes time and at least two people.there has been many descriptions of how by many on here.I've done three .The main problem initially is getting the two glasses internal metal separator into position.This is the way I found easiest/ Fit both glasses to rubber then with two or three helping to hold all in place, fit the whole lot from THE INSIDE.the two glasses will be just touching at the centre. Then use two or three straps fitted through the gap in the center and right round the frame and connected up to form loops round the glasses and frame, roof rack straps with the buckle are ideal. gently tighten the straps so that the glasses are pulled apart.do a little at a time,One I had to leave overnight to let the glass and rubber settle in. Once the glasses are far enough apart to fit the internal seararator,put it into position and remove the straps. If they are too tight to slide out just cut them with a blade to remove.Then you can fit the outer chrome strip and its in. BUT the new rubbers are hopeless, None fit properly at the corners ,copies of copies etc So they need to be glued down. The next bit is fitting the chrome finisher,can't be done first. Best of luck with that one ,that's the best :o :o bit don't damage ,bend or throw the old one they are unobtainable and cost a fortune second hand If and its a big if you can find one.
If its damaged or missing just fill the slot with black sealant,it dosent need to be there is not a locking strip, just cosmetic.

regarding sealant,if you get a leak,very common problem. If you look at the rubber from the inside you will see that it's easy to lift up away from the frame and the tip of a sealant gun slides underneath so you can run a bead of sealant all the way round the rubber up onto the frame . Good luck with it.

geoberni
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Re: Series MM split screen installation

Postby geoberni » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:17 am

I'm glad I asked my question, it seems to have helped define the cross over time between types of Split screen. :)
Basil the 1955 series II

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manlyvaleaussie
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Re: Series MM split screen installation

Postby manlyvaleaussie » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:21 pm

To kennatt, many thanks for the installation description, will let you know how it all comes out. To geoberni, attached are 2 photos of the mouldings for the early MM, one is of the windscreen inner mouldings out of the car and the other one is of the rear window inner moulding still in the car, the headlining is not original, someone has changed it to the later Series II style, incidentally this car is a L.H.D. 1949 Low Light, car number 8335. manlyvaleaussie
Attachments
DSC05524.JPG
DSC05524.JPG (166.36 KiB) Viewed 339 times
DSC05526.JPG
DSC05526.JPG (155.29 KiB) Viewed 339 times

DAVIDMCCULLOUGH
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Re: Series MM split screen installation

Postby DAVIDMCCULLOUGH » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:57 pm

Ive carried out this job around 5 times or so. I use a cn old centre pillar with about 1' cut off each end. I fit the 2 pieces of glass together with the cut off pillar and then fit the rubber to the whole item. Strong cord is then put between the edge so the rubber can be pulled over the bodywork. This is then fitted from inside the car. I would say its a 3 person job, patient people!!! once the glas in in place in the body you remove the old cut down pillar and replace it with the one you want to use. I use a sealant called Arbomast Austo Seal that remains flexible.

This is a link to Steveys restoration of a 54, but it has the same windscreen arrangement. Page 10 has a few photographs of the way we set it up.

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=40334&start=180

Good luck :D


Too many Minors so little time.....

manlyvaleaussie
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Re: Series MM split screen installation

Postby manlyvaleaussie » Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:44 pm

Many thanks to David, the description and photos of Stevey's installation are invaluable, after seeing these I am going back to just ordering a new seal EXT 101 as the seal in the EXT 101K with the new smaller glass to ease the installation does not appear to have a slot for the chrome insert unless several of us have totally lost it, admittedly not impossible, but I don't think so, not just yet. The above mentioned slot is very obvious in the rubber being used by Stevey in his installation. manlvaleaussie

JohnV
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Re: Series MM split screen installation

Postby JohnV » Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:42 pm

One tip from the invaluable Frank McDonough: If you don't have windscreen panes, or even if you do, having new ones made using 5mm glass rather the standard 6mm makes installation that much easier. You do have to be sure to use the thick-rubber gasket between the two halves (behind the dividing pillar) so they don't fall toward each other or rattle over time.
manlyvaleaussie wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:44 pm
Many thanks to David, the description and photos of Stevey's installation are invaluable, after seeing these I am going back to just ordering a new seal EXT 101 as the seal in the EXT 101K with the new smaller glass to ease the installation does not appear to have a slot for the chrome insert unless several of us have totally lost it, admittedly not impossible, but I don't think so, not just yet. The above mentioned slot is very obvious in the rubber being used by Stevey in his installation. manlvaleaussie
I have two Minors in upstate New York. One is the 1961 Traveller my dad bought new that year in London, where I was born. It's had a hard life but is still running cheerfully at 54K miles. The second is the oldest Minor confirmed to survive in North America, a LHD high-light Tourer built in April 1949. It's a total basket case, but will be restored over the coming years.

manlyvaleaussie
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Re: Series MM split screen installation

Postby manlyvaleaussie » Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:57 pm

Well gentlemen here I am again, yes it's the manlyvaleaussie about the split screen installation and I think I have the answers to my problems but looking for verification. Attached are some photos, the first two are of the seal and does the first or second photo represent the outside of the seal? Second and third photos are of the chrome surrounds taken from a '49 low light and John Voelcker assures me that these are different from the models after October '49 and that's why I'm not seeing how they could fit the new seal, so is photo number 5 the chrome surround that I need. Any and help is greatly appreciated. Paul Follett. manlyvaleaussie
Attachments
DSC00026.JPG
DSC00026.JPG (219.32 KiB) Viewed 217 times
DSC00025.JPG
DSC00025.JPG (154.24 KiB) Viewed 217 times
DSC00024.JPG
DSC00024.JPG (166.09 KiB) Viewed 217 times
DSC00023.JPG
DSC00023.JPG (129.85 KiB) Viewed 217 times
DSC00021.JPG
DSC00021.JPG (142.13 KiB) Viewed 217 times

manlyvaleaussie
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Re: Series MM split screen installation

Postby manlyvaleaussie » Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:26 pm

To David McCullough, well David here I am again, yes it's the manlyvaleaussie about the split screen installation and I think I have the answers to my problems but looking for verification. Attached are some photos, the first two are of the seal and does the first or second photo represent the outside of the seal? Second and third photos are of the chrome surrounds taken from a '49 low light and John Voelcker assures me that these are different from the models after October '49 and that's why I'm not seeing how they could fit the new seal, so is photo number 5 the chrome surround that I need. Any and all help is greatly appreciated. Paul Follett. manlyvaleaussie P.S. I guess the system put the photos in the reverse order of my description, so please use the numerical order as being 1,2 etc.
Attachments
DSC00026.JPG
DSC00026.JPG (219.32 KiB) Viewed 191 times
DSC00025.JPG
DSC00025.JPG (154.24 KiB) Viewed 191 times
DSC00024.JPG
DSC00024.JPG (166.09 KiB) Viewed 191 times
DSC00023.JPG
DSC00023.JPG (129.85 KiB) Viewed 191 times
DSC00021.JPG
DSC00021.JPG (142.13 KiB) Viewed 191 times

geoberni
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Re: Series MM split screen installation

Postby geoberni » Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:52 pm

Paul
just a quick pointer about photos in posts.
If you want photos to appear in a specific order (and also to get rid of that annoying white box that says 'Attachments' around them) after uploading the photos just position the cursor in the text box , then click on the [ Place Inline ] by each attachment as required.

Here's a random photo I posted a few weeks ago.
20190713_114950.jpg
20190713_114950.jpg (709.71 KiB) Viewed 187 times
No white box and just where I wanted it. :wink:

Of course, if you're doing it all on your phone, its a bit more fiddly than on a full size device :D
Basil the 1955 series II

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