Series MM wheels and brake adjuster holes

for those with Series MM sidevalve cars produced between September 1948 and February 1953
gtt1951
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Series MM wheels and brake adjuster holes

Postby gtt1951 » Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:43 pm

Hello Folks,
I have managed to purchase some replacement rims for my low-light, given the sorry state of my current ones.
Two of these rim, in the correct colour for my car - Romain Green - have no brake adjuster holes in them.
Rims with no adjuster holes.jpg
Rims with no adjuster holes.jpg (1.55 MiB) Viewed 742 times
All the other rims, including the ones currently on my 1950 car, all have these adjuster holes.
Rim with hole.jpg
Rim with hole.jpg (1.31 MiB) Viewed 742 times
Is there a known transition date from when the holes were provided?
Regards,
George.
Image
'50 Low-light with 918 Side-valve engine,
'51 High-light with Side-valve 918 engine,
'55 4-dr with 803 engine,
'56 Traveller with 1098 engine.

JohnV
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Re: Series MM wheels and brake adjuster holes

Postby JohnV » Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:53 pm

Not sure about the wheels, but the brakes themselves were modified twice in early years.

Dec 1949: Hub/brake drum, stub shaft, outer bearing & cap, steering lever modified (RHD 31790 / LHD 12338)

Mar 1951: Front and rear brake-shoe assemblies modified (RHD 90318 / LHD 89910)

If your rims are original to the car, is its serial # after RHD 31790? If not, then perhaps that's the answer.

I know you said it's a 1950, but perhaps it was registered a few days or weeks into the new year. Unless you have a Heritage Certificate with the actual date of dispatch on it.
gtt1951 wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:43 pm
Two of these rim, in the correct colour for my car - Romain Green - have no brake adjuster holes in them.
Rims with no adjuster holes.

All the other rims, including the ones currently on my 1950 car, all have these adjuster holes.

Is there a known transition date from when the holes were provided?
I have two Minors in upstate New York. One is the 1961 Traveller my dad bought new that year in London, where I was born. It's had a hard life but is still running cheerfully at 54K miles. The second is the oldest Minor confirmed to survive in North America, a LHD high-light Tourer built in April 1949. It's a total basket case, but will be restored over the coming years.

JohnV
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Re: Series MM wheels and brake adjuster holes

Postby JohnV » Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:55 pm

Further info: My April 1949 "USA" export Tourer has four wheels that I believe are original, but NONE of them has brake holes.
I have two Minors in upstate New York. One is the 1961 Traveller my dad bought new that year in London, where I was born. It's had a hard life but is still running cheerfully at 54K miles. The second is the oldest Minor confirmed to survive in North America, a LHD high-light Tourer built in April 1949. It's a total basket case, but will be restored over the coming years.

gtt1951
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Re: Series MM wheels and brake adjuster holes

Postby gtt1951 » Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:06 pm

JohnV wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:53 pm

I know you said it's a 1950, but perhaps it was registered a few days or weeks into the new year. Unless you have a Heritage Certificate with the actual date of dispatch on it.
gtt1951 wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:43 pm
Two of these rim, in the correct colour for my car - Romain Green - have no brake adjuster holes in them.
Rims with no adjuster holes.

All the other rims, including the ones currently on my 1950 car, all have these adjuster holes.

Is there a known transition date from when the holes were provided?
I have Heritage certificates - low-light build date was 27 - 28 June 1950, as a LHD car with despatch date of 30th June 1950 to Nuffield Exports,
high-light build date 5 - 6 March 1951, despatch date 14th March 1951 to a dealer in Coventry.

Both these cars have adjuster holes on their wheel rims.

George.
Image
'50 Low-light with 918 Side-valve engine,
'51 High-light with Side-valve 918 engine,
'55 4-dr with 803 engine,
'56 Traveller with 1098 engine.

JohnV
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Re: Series MM wheels and brake adjuster holes

Postby JohnV » Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:14 pm

Interesting! So perhaps the brake adjuster holes were ADDED to the wheels at one of those change points.

I'll ask a friend who has a Feb 1949 car to see if he's got holes or not.
gtt1951 wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:06 pm

I have Heritage certificates - low-light build date was 27 - 28 June 1950, as a LHD car with despatch date of 30th June 1950 to Nuffield Exports,
high-light build date 5 - 6 March 1951, despatch date 14th March 1951 to a dealer in Coventry. Both these cars have adjuster holes on their wheel rims.
I have two Minors in upstate New York. One is the 1961 Traveller my dad bought new that year in London, where I was born. It's had a hard life but is still running cheerfully at 54K miles. The second is the oldest Minor confirmed to survive in North America, a LHD high-light Tourer built in April 1949. It's a total basket case, but will be restored over the coming years.

Mick Lynch
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Re: Series MM wheels and brake adjuster holes

Postby Mick Lynch » Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:46 pm

JohnV wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:55 pm
Further info: My April 1949 "USA" export Tourer has four wheels that I believe are original, but NONE of them has brake holes.
Further muddying of waters: My Feb 1951 “Canadian” export 4 door has adjuster holes BUT the wheel is mounted with studs and wheel nuts. Were these not bolts?
Attachments
23EB8EA2-9689-48F3-8365-9F67039F60A6.jpeg
Studs ‘n holes
23EB8EA2-9689-48F3-8365-9F67039F60A6.jpeg (107.16 KiB) Viewed 226 times

ManyMinors
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Re: Series MM wheels and brake adjuster holes

Postby ManyMinors » Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:18 pm

The blue wheel in your last picture is a later Series11 wheel I think. Different pcd and different hubs/brakes/axle etc etc.

gtt1951
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Re: Series MM wheels and brake adjuster holes

Postby gtt1951 » Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:45 pm

Mick,
Manyminors is correct - the front wheel you show is from a face-lift Series II.
Maybe a previous owner replaced the front suspension legs with later ones, carnying the later hub and drum assemblies.
Are the rear wheels the same pattern?

George.
Image
'50 Low-light with 918 Side-valve engine,
'51 High-light with Side-valve 918 engine,
'55 4-dr with 803 engine,
'56 Traveller with 1098 engine.

Mick Lynch
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Re: Series MM wheels and brake adjuster holes

Postby Mick Lynch » Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:08 am

gtt1951 wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:45 pm
Maybe a previous owner replaced the front suspension legs with later ones, carnying the later hub and drum assemblies.
Ah-ha... that explains the crate of bits I got with the car... I got two front back plates with different cylinders and a complete back axel and drums.

Car has been off the road since ‘83 and I’m still finding my way through the parts. Looks like the previous owner trailed the junkyards in the 60s n 70s as I have a spare gearbox, two props, a radiator, a frozen engine, dash minus instruments, hubs, umpteen shockers the back axel I mentioned and another diff minus housing... attached Pic of the spare back plates.
Attachments
A58FEDD2-95CD-455C-8AD2-3B22FEB81E72.jpeg
A58FEDD2-95CD-455C-8AD2-3B22FEB81E72.jpeg (115.84 KiB) Viewed 195 times

gtt1951
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Re: Series MM wheels and brake adjuster holes

Postby gtt1951 » Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:22 pm

Hello Mick,
That looks like a Series MM front wheel back plate with the original brake cylinders.
In the UK ESM has only recently managed to get some newly made stock - they are Aluminium Alloy.
I will photograph a spare front wheel hub, I have, to show you what the front hubs used to look like (you can't buy these any more).
The front hub is a brake drum and bearing hub in one piece.
I see, in the crate behind the backplate, that you have a correct Series MM tail light unit.

George.
Image
'50 Low-light with 918 Side-valve engine,
'51 High-light with Side-valve 918 engine,
'55 4-dr with 803 engine,
'56 Traveller with 1098 engine.

gtt1951
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Posts: 901
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:01 pm
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Re: Series MM wheels and brake adjuster holes

Postby gtt1951 » Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:39 pm

OK, I've got the pictures of the front hub.
IMG_20200922_162604.jpg
IMG_20200922_162604.jpg (2.27 MiB) Viewed 155 times
IMG_20200922_162623.jpg
IMG_20200922_162623.jpg (1.33 MiB) Viewed 155 times
And the last picture is a close up of where the bearing races go - still has some old grease in there, cat fur and other fluff and dirt.
IMG_20200922_162631.jpg
IMG_20200922_162631.jpg (1.27 MiB) Viewed 155 times
There was another thing that Morris Motors did and that was to change the thread size on the hubs (both front and back) during the production life of the Series MM, so that you have to have different bolts for later cars (but that is another thread story).

George.
Image
'50 Low-light with 918 Side-valve engine,
'51 High-light with Side-valve 918 engine,
'55 4-dr with 803 engine,
'56 Traveller with 1098 engine.

DAVIDMCCULLOUGH
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Re: Series MM wheels and brake adjuster holes

Postby DAVIDMCCULLOUGH » Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:51 pm

George, I know of a man looking 2 wheels without brake holes for his early car, he has 2 with holes. Perhaps you could swap? I can get you his details if your interested.

My tourer has a mixture of both so some whels must have been changed at some poitn. My black MM which is on original wheels has adjusting holes, its May 1950


Too many Minors so little time.....

Mick Lynch
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Re: Series MM wheels and brake adjuster holes

Postby Mick Lynch » Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:14 am

gtt1951 wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:22 pm
The front hub is a brake drum and bearing hub in one piece.
George,

Indeed I’ve got those in the spares crates also two which are splined which have to be for the rear.
Looks like the previous owner (who bought it as part of a lot in a deceased's estate sale and never used the car) kept everything even though he didn’t know what they were for, so kudos for doing that

My MM has the running gear of a series 2 from what I am understanding. Probably the only way to keep the car on the road in the past.

I checked the front, they are hubs with the bearings in them and simple drums as I’ve seen on other pictures. I ordered some wheel bearings but I think they will be for the bearing in drum type when they arrive. I am only finding out the state of hybridization in the past few days!

Ive realized i can’t return car to original state tho as I seem to have everything except the wheels. Isn’t this where I came in?

Mick

gtt1951
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Re: Series MM wheels and brake adjuster holes

Postby gtt1951 » Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:43 am

DAVIDMCCULLOUGH wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:51 pm
George, I know of a man looking 2 wheels without brake holes for his early car, he has 2 with holes. Perhaps you could swap? I can get you his details if your interested ...
David, PM sent. George.


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