cellulose paint

[beechford]

sorry if this is the wrong forum but can you explain what you mean by cellulose paint. I am familiar with Enamel Acrylic and Two pack but dont know cellulose thanks a bunch :

[MoggyTech]

Cellulose paint is a fast drying spray paint that was used for many years. It relies on solvent flash off to dry (thinners) and is typically sprayed in layers at 15 to 20 minute intervals (depends on temperature and humidity). It has a very high VOC content, so was phased out.

Very easy paint to work with, as less than perfect finishes can be sorted out by colour sanding (orange peel/runs etc)

Fairly toxic, so proper mask and suitable coveralls need to be worn.

It cannot be sprayed over acrylic based paints, as it softens then lifts most acrylic finishes. Still available for use on classics in some countries.

[Alec]

Hello MT,

"Still available for use on classics in some countries." which does include the U.K, although there may be temporary shortages.
It is a forgiving paint for amateur use and for spot repairs as it blends with existing cellulose finishes unlike some other paints.

Alec

[Kevin]

Hmm maybe it has a different name down under maybe someone else from your neck of the woods can advise.

[bmcecosse]

It contains nitro-cellulose, yes - it's an explosive substance, hence the 'cellulose' name! This along with the highly flammable solvents makes the process of spraying it a dangerous business. The area must be very well ventilated - the air compressor must not be in the same room and of course no smoking - not even for hours afterwards. Personally - I now only do this outdoors - the fumes are very unhealthy and best not breathed in!

[les]

Oh dear, compressor outside?

[jonathon]

nitro-cellulose, an explosive substance,highly flammable solvents, makes the process of spraying it a dangerous business. The area must be very well ventilated - the air compressor must not be in the same room and of course no smoking - not even for hours afterwards. Personally - I now only do this outdoors - the fumes are very unhealthy and best not breathed in!

Okay for the neighbours to be exposed to it then. Should be banned in non regulated sites.

[Alec]

Hello Jonathon,

"Okay for the neighbours to be exposed to it then. Should be banned in non regulated sites."

I have no near neighbours.

BMCE, I would guess that smoking is far worse for you than the occasional whiff of cellulose. By the way, flour is explosive, where do you bake, in that case?

Alec

[bigginger]

Lots of things are dangerous. Listing them in comparision to cellulose paint is futile and rather daft. Inhaling cellulose paint can be deadly, whether it's near to you or not. I can't see what the argument is, tbh

[Alec]

Hello Andrew,

I don't think that there is an argument, however, cellulose is not as lethal as you make out, or I have a particular immunity to it? Two pack is far worse, I understand, and probably no longer available with the current regulations?

Alec

[ian.mcdougall]

Two pack is still available but as a high solids [ie less solvents] so less VOC to pollute the atmosphere but two pack is toxic and should not be ingested it can even get into your body through your skin . We now use a water based base coat colour with a high solids clearcoat to protect the base, Cellulose has a very high VOC content so is just as damaging to the enviroment also with all the solvents in it it can be very dangerous with regards to fire hazards it has to be stored in strict conditions, where as two pack is not so high a risk

[les]

Alex if you are immune to cellulose and have a similar partner you may, over several generations start to populate the world with people who could use cellulose safely, of course if you favour the 6000 year old universe view, maybe not.

[bmcecosse]

The solvents in celly paint are VERY harmful. A few years ago I sprayed some parts of my car in the closed garage. I was very unwell - dizzy/sick/unsteady on feet for two days !! Never again. And yes - compressor should be outside - or in a different room would be fine. Yes - flour (or any organic fine powder) is highly explosive IF it gets into a fine dust cloud - not generally the case when baking, at least not when I make the scones!

[chickenjohn]

Lets get something straight here- and dispel a few myths. yes, cellulose paint is harmful- due to the solvents it contains and you MUST wear a carbon or air mask when spraying it or even mixing or cleaning your equipment.

However, 2-pack is lethal stuff- should NEVER be used at home. nasty 2-pack will kill you, celly may make you ill (AS BMC found- had he used 2-pack he would not be here to tell the tale).

Celly solvents contain Xylene and toluene and the thinners is actually much less harmful than petrol Yes, celly is flammable so take precautions but it CAN be used at home with suitable precautions wheras 2-pack should NEVER be.

I am a chemist so I know what I'm talking about.

[jonathon]

I think we are already agreed that 2K is more harmfull than celly, but the impression given on both this thread and many others in this forum, is that celly is okay to spray at home. It is not, if BM is ill after spraying (admittedly in a confined space) and we are led to believe he's a big chap then how will children and pets fair when you decide to spray your car outside, using about 4 liters of the stuff.
I know its an unpopular point but spraying should really be confined to purpose made facilities.

[bmcecosse]

There's a lot worse going into the air outside J . The very occasional wee bit of spraying I'm doing outside is insignificant - I don't suggest a car body repair shop should work like that. 2 Pack is indeed lethal - as CJ points out - it can get you in two ways, firstly by coating your lungs and then setting hard, and if you somehow survive that - then it can lead to occupational asthma from the chemical content. It is absolutely NOT suitable for amateur use at home !

[jonathon]

I totally agree BM, but I'm worried about the general impression that celly is safe, when it has clearly been established by both your experience and Chicken 'the chemist, John' that this is far from the truth.
Strange with 2K though, where I used to rent my old shop the owner has sprayed 2K for 20 years plus in a booth, only using a simple nuisance mask, he's still here. But yes, it is dangerous and should not be used at home.
Lets not add yet another dangerous product to the poor air we already breath, especially in built up areas.

[bmcecosse]

Well - I did my own part for environmental damage by burning about 3 tonnes of very smokey coal yesterday at Bo'ness!
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[beechford]

I thought it was such a simple question , didnt realise that Id start a paint war , but thanks for your answers .My son in law knows about paint and stuff but he hadnt heard of this type of paint . So all you boys settle down kiss and be friends or there will be tears before bedtime,ceeyas

[jonathon]

I think we are all saying the same thing really 'beechford', and are all aware of the facts. The difference is some of us are less tolerant of unnecessary pollution with dangerous products in a residential environment.