This Europe referendum malarkey

[TvdWerf]

The UK will thrive if we leave, Made in Britain will become a badge of pride for sellers. It amazes me that no government of any flavour has revived the Buy British campaign that was popular when 'ahem' most of us were young. Without the UK the Euro will probably collapse, Sterling will remain strong, mainly on it's long history.

The EU policy on classic cars will ruin our hobby, modifications will become impossible.

I'm voting out.

Modifications from classic cars are also in the Netherlands possible, sometimes more easy as in the UK.
When the EU makes the UK and NL rule to the EU rule, it is just better for us.
When I have an old car without any registration number, I can register it in the Netherlands, not in the UK....
No more needed as a chassis number, and a check if he is not stolen in the EU.
When a country is not in the EU, it is easy to steal a car there, and register him "legal" in the EU, because no connection from registrations any more....

[MarkyB]

Made in Britain will become a badge of pride for sellers

Why would attitudes change if we were out of Europe?

I would say we are in a very good position now, we have the benefits of Europe without being in the Euro or the Schengen Area so we have control of our borders and currency.
Europe has the power and the will to take on multi-national companies, our governments seem to lack both.

[les]

The more desperate measures taken to promote staying, the more suspicious I get!

[SteveClem]

Just back from a holiday in the Low Countries. The people we spoke to didn't seem too enthusiastic about the EU.
I'm thinking that the whole EU thing looks a bit like a failed experiment...pinched that quote from a Flemish guy we met.

[simmitc]

Most economic models accept that economies perform in cycles. Maybe not quite as dramatic as "boom and bust", but still ups and downs. Traditionally as one market goes down, another will be picking up, and that helps to cushion trade for the suppliers - never completely, as their home economy will move towards recession from time to time; but it does help. Currencies fluctuate in value against one another. Then along comes some incongruous bureaucratic monster that tries to force everyone into a single model. When that goes into decline it drags everyone down together. There is no opportunity for individual countries to tweak their own economies through the traditional methods. The poor dummies can't even take VAT off products without permission from the centre. A recipe for failure if ever there was one.

[les]

After that I guess you must be a politician.

[simmitc]

I speak too bluntly to be a politician!

[SteveClem]

I think Obama's comments might be counterproductive for the 'Inners'. He's got a bl**dy cheek! Imagine the fuss if we interfered with their politics.

[les]

I speak too bluntly to be a politician!

Maybe but I was referring to your analytical waffle !

[twincamman]

As I said earlier, as regards motoring legislation, this originates from the UN. The EU are just doing as they are told.
http://www.unece.org/leginstr/trans.html

However you vote regarding the EU won't make one iota of difference on this.
Just thought I'd chuck a fact into the mix, cos we ain't getting any from the politicians!

[SteveClem]

Facts are pretty much nonexistent in this debate. Lots of opinions though.

[Longdog]

I have no strong feeling either way whether to stay in or out. I'm currently leaning towards out as there is one thing that gets under my skin. When someone is found guilty of a crime and a UK court finds them guilty, they can then go to a European court and get a different result and ours gets quashed. That annoys me.

Can I just point out that no European Court can overrule a guilty conviction given in this country. I think what you are referring to are those high profile cases where our Government is trying to deport someone and they can't because the European Court of Human Rights decrees that they can't. We are bound by that Court because we signed up to the European Convention on Human Rights which IS NOT an EU body and has nothing to do with the EU. It was created shortly after WW2 (mainly by Winston Churchill no less).

This is what worries me about the referendum, people making a decision based on misplaced beliefs (on whichever side). I find the BBC Reality Check on their news site quite useful as cutting through the claims made by both sides.

Mrs Longdog

[SteveClem]

And now Donald Trump is sticking his oar in....Around here 'trump' is another word for fart.

[POMMReg]

And now Donald Trump is sticking his oar in....Around here 'trump' is another word for fart.

The Clinton Dynasty FAR worse - the US equivalent of Tony Blair.

[SteveClem]

And now Donald Trump is sticking his oar in....Around here 'trump' is another word for fart.

The Clinton Dynasty FAR worse - the US equivalent of Tony Blair.

Whatever...not our problem at the moment. May become so in the longer term. He's not too happy about the Scots messing up his golf courses with wind turbines,apparently.

[TDV102]

The big problem in both the UK and the US is a complete lack of any decent candidates to vote for. As Gore Vidal wisely said 'Anyone who is wants to run for president should automatically be disqualified from ever doing so.' Same applies to the PM role in the UK

[dp]

I don't completely agree elements this video, but it does have a lot of facts about the EU

https://vimeo.com/166378572

To address the 'we don't know what might happen if we leave' argument, we don't know what might happen if we stay either but whatever the future holds, if we leave, the British government will be deciding how to react with (hopefully) the best interests of Britain in mind.

if the EU comes up with a fantastic idea Britain can choose to replicate that. If the EU comes up with a stupid idea or an idea that doesn't work for Britain, we can't be forced to follow for the alleged greater good.

Obama's intervention re trade deals. The EU still doesn't have one with the US and the one that's on the table, TTIP, well look up how caustic that is. We don't have a trade deal with plenty of countries but can still do business with them. If we leave we can negotiate our own trade deals, take back control of our fish stocks and make decisions that are in Britain's interests.

Finally (for now), every time I hear a politician say we should be in Europe I hear it as that politician saying,
"The government and people of the UK are so useless we shouldn't be trusted to run ourselves. Speak for yourself mate, the empirical evidence shows Britain did pretty well without the EU.

[busguy]

We need to get out of this mess of an organisation that cannot even get itself audited over the last five years! There is something to hide there, and is a gravytrain for a duff politicians next step. The Kinnock family are still milking it, and I bet Cameron has been offered a post if he keeps us in there!
We are not the only ones questioning the performance of the EU. Other EU countries are aspiring to get a referendum on whether to stay in, or not, and the best thing is for us to lead the way, and get out first. We can, and will, make this country work efficiently, and the politicians will have to step up to the plate and actually do something about properly running the country for a change.
If you hadn't guessed, I'm out!

[SteveClem]

I'm tending to agree with you. My well travelled sons are starting to despair of me.

[Blaketon]

I feel that if we leave, it will be hard at first but better in the long run. It seems that the “Establishment” wishes us to remain but when I use the word “Establishment”, I refer to big business and those who appear to have vested interests.

So far as I can see, we have been going downhill ever since joining the Common Market, which has since morphed into the EU. We now seem to be at the mercy of foreign money and our industrial base is in tatters (No wonder there is no money for public services). So what if Google and Starbucks Coffee leave the UK if we leave the EU?

I’d like to see Britain pull together, back our own produce (Such as it is but hopefully this would get better) and take care of our own. So far as immigration is concerned, we probably all descend from immigrants and in my case, I was born in England (That same place is now Wales), with ancestors (So far as I know) from Somerset and Cardigan. I am nothing more specific than British and I suggest that applies to us all. However Britain is now like a 53 seater bus, that has 80 people on it and there’s no more room. We can’t keep building houses, especially at the expense of agricultural land.

I think it will take a change in mind set before we can hope to think of supporting our own (And I don’t mean cheering on England at football or Andy Murray at tennis). Since the 1980s, we have increasingly become a “ME ME ME” society (Obsessed with status and vanity) and that’s as prevalent in a safe Labour seat, like Blaenau Gwent, as anywhere else!! Recently the steel workers have been marching in support of their jobs (And I support them) but I suggest most would have been wearing shoes made in China or cloths made in Pakistan. In other words, when the textile workers in Lancashire or the shoemakers in Northampton were losing their jobs, the steel workers didn’t seem to care. We need to realise that what goes around comes around. I seem to be easy on shoes and so buy them quite infrequently. I recently bought a pair but found that Clarks shoes are now made in China. I couldn’t get a British pair but I did manage to buy a German pair (Which turned out to be £20 than the Chinese pair, though if the Clarks had been British, I would have bought them).