Will Government be seen as classic car vandals ?

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LobbyLudd
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Will Government be seen as classic car vandals ?

Post by LobbyLudd »

What happened to all those dozens of classic cars , including some Minors ,MGs lots of Minis etc etc. that were last heard of sitting on an airfield (somewhere in Bucks I think it was) included in the hundreds of Government Scrappage vehicles ?

The government department apparently have always refused that even one nut and bolt cannot to be touched on any of these classics.
Someone has said that a lot are still just sitting in rows and they have in a lot of instances now appreciated in value above the figure that they were credited for under the scrappage part exchange deal.

I think Ford and Vauxhall have stated they will not now knowingly consign any classic car to the governments breakers yard in any present and future scrappage schemes ?
'69 4 door saloon, traf: blue.


'LIFE'- is what happens when you are busy planning other things. John Lennon
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geoberni
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Re: Will Government be seen as classic car vandals ?

Post by geoberni »

You're thinking of this place most likely
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... APPED.html

Former RAF Thurleigh, then Royal Aircraft Establishment, Bedford, was finally sold off to be a 'business park', in around 2000.
All sites such as Google Earth, pre-date the scrappage scheme so they're no help in seeing what's there now.
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les
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Re: Will Government be seen as classic car vandals ?

Post by les »

I could understand your question if the government had held a gun at owners heads, insisting they take part.

ManyMinors
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Re: Will Government be seen as classic car vandals ?

Post by ManyMinors »

It did happen nearly 10 years ago..........
LobbyLudd
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Re: Will Government be seen as classic car vandals ?

Post by LobbyLudd »

I don't particularly blame any owner for taking advantage of what at the time seemed a very generous part exchange offer at that time particularly for a vehicle that was not seen to be worth in any other way the scrappage exchange figure and would certainly be seen to otherwise cost far too much cash perhaps to bring up to a good state of repair (also if that person has limited finances and/or has a family to consider)
To any customer in that situation at the time most often you would say 'yes its a No Brainer'

My main point was that there apparently did seem to be a delay for some reason with evidence that someone had decided on the separation out to within a specific holding area of those various types of vehicles (i.e. Minis MGs Minors Triumphs etc.) some of these cars that have interestingly actually gained in value a bit more highly now than at that time .

It would be interesting if any government department involved actually realise they are sitting on such a appreciating asset (even if for the use of these vehicles as a valuable resource for spare parts ) if indeed all these vehicles that were obviously separated out actually do as recently reported still survive.
'69 4 door saloon, traf: blue.


'LIFE'- is what happens when you are busy planning other things. John Lennon
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Re: Will Government be seen as classic car vandals ?

Post by Sleeper »

...and plenty of room left...

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/search/ra ... !1e3?hl=en

John :wink:
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geoberni
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Re: Will Government be seen as classic car vandals ?

Post by geoberni »

Sleeper wrote: Fri May 04, 2018 2:45 pm ...and plenty of room left...

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/search/ra ... !1e3?hl=en

John :wink:
No actually, not guaranteed to be the case at all, because although that image you have got on 'Google' say copyright 2018, that is a blanket copyright date to the entire imagery library.
That imagery is the same as on 'Google Earth' which I linked to previously (yesterday), which gives the actual date of 2009. So it pre-dates the scrappage scheme and is actually new cars awaiting delivery to dealers.
:wink: :wink:
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LobbyLudd
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Re: Will Government be seen as classic car vandals ?

Post by LobbyLudd »

Yes they are partly arranged in colour groups and look to be very uniform shapes . (not random enough for scrappage scheme intakes it looks)

It still then begs the question ,did the government dept decide to go ahead in the end and destroy all those classic cars that were photographed in a large separate group ( including a good few Minors) I must must still wonder :roll:
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Re: Will Government be seen as classic car vandals ?

Post by Blaketon »

I have had some dealing with the pre and post 2010 governments, on the issue of classic cars. Without wishing to get into a Labour/Conservative argument, I can say that Gordon Brown was hostile to classic cars and that after he left office, a more friendly attitude prevailed towards classic cars.

I haven’t followed the progress of the scrappage scheme, though I know it has been stopped. One of the most obvious manifestations, of Mr Brown’s hostility towards classic cars, was the issue of road tax exemptions. As chancellor, he wasted no time in halting exemption at 31 12 1972 (I suppose it could have been worse had the concession been withdrawn) and the reason given was that it would result in too much loss of revenue. This argument didn’t really hold water, as very few cars reach the age of twenty five and modern cars are even less likely to do so. I have been going to classic events for over 30 years and what would have been in the public car park 30 years ago, doesn’t now seem to be seen, in any quantities, in the event; in other words pretty much the same stuff is in the event today, as was the case 30 years ago.

When it was clear that the loss of revenue argument was weak, the next excuse was the environment. Given that the government, of which Mr Brown was a member, gave Charles Wares a Green Apple Award, in 2003, you would have expected this to signal encouragement to classic cars owners. What applies to Morris Minors can apply to other old cars too and since there were lots of new small cars benefiting from zero road tax rates (Surely a greater loss to the Treasury than a relative handful of 25 year old cars), on the basis of their supposed “Green” qualities, then classic cars should also have got back the rolling concession. A cynic might have said that there were more potential voters driving small modern cars, than classic cars.

I don’t think the scrappage scheme was aimed at classic cars as such; some simply fell within the criteria of the scheme (I think it was aimed at potential voters with old bangers). Perhaps if it had been better thought out, an upper age limit might have been included but I can’t imagine anyone, in their right mind, trading in a valuable classic for £2000. For myself, if I had owned a tatty Minor, I would have been looking to improve that or get a better one. £2000 off £10000 worth of electronic trouble would have seemed like jumping from the frying pan into the fire.

In June/July 2010, I was advised that with the government in deficit, further concessions on free road tax were not possible but that it would be considered at a future date. In due course it was and we now have rolling tax exemption set at 40 years. If there are no changes, before the end of next year, my MG Midget should come in from the cold. Thereafter, if there are any further freezes, I don’t think it will be as contentious. The end of the 1970s/early 80s seemed to see the end of the production of what have become popular classics (Like the MGB) and what followed doesn’t seem to have developed a classic following. You see more Cortinas than Sierras (Lots of Sierra gearboxes though), more Marinas than Montegos and if there were to be a logical cut off date, I reckon the end of Y reg suffix plates would be it. Having said that, I don’t think there is a need for a cut off. You still see the odd 1980s Ford Escort/Fiesta GL or Ghia, bought by a retiree in the mid 1980s, who has since died, leaving their well preserved car, with fewer than 30000 on the clock. Whilst I would fear for the long term availability of spares for such a rarity, I certainly wouldn’t advocate scrapping such a car or denying the owner free tax in due course.

The MOT exemption, whilst I have reservations about those who may abuse the trust the government have shown us, is hardly a hostile gesture.

Quite where classics will go, in the longer term, is open to question. I think the ban on internal combustion cars, post 2040, is a political gesture (I suspect that if any government proposed serious measures, to tackle emissions and consumption, such as a personal carbon ration, they would never be voted in again) but one which could do more damage, long term and indirectly, to the classic car scene, than the scrappage scheme. I don’t think you can legislate for that sort of thing. If and when electric cars are viable they will catch on (At present they are not, nor do I think you will solve the problem of emissions and consumption, until you address the need people seem to have to travel). I am sceptical about driverless cars but if they are ever safe and reliable, I see the demise of the personal car and I think people will just book driverless taxis. Whatever happens, it could mean fewer people able to drive the kinds of cars we have and fuel for them will become less readily available. I will be 75 in 2040 and I hope still able to drive and still able to get fuel. I have recently seen classic fuels listed and I think this was the stuff - https://www.classic-oils.net/Sunoco-Optima . These days I rarely go far enough from home to warrant filling the car with fuel away from my local service station and I try to put in 40 litres at a time, which is what Miller VSP bottles are designed to treat (I use it to guard against ethanol). Modern fuel is rather prone to “Go off” and since I’ve not been out in any of my cars since December (I cycle to work and shop locally on foot or by bus), I like the sound of the Sunoco ethanol free fuel. It could be the only way we will get fuel.

I don’t know how popular classic cars is as a hobby amongst youngsters. Speaking personally, during the 1970s, I was very interested in older cars (A trip to https://www.vscc.co.uk/page/events?eventID=1246 was always a treat for me then) and during the early/mid eighties, as the classic car scene was gaining momentum, I was a keen participant (My MG Midget wasn’t really old enough to be called classic then but the closure of the Abingdon plant made all late MGBs/Midgets prematurely classic and those of us, who had them, felt we had something worth preserving). Hopefully there are 10 year olds today, who are interested in fifty (Plus) year old cars, as I was during the 1970s.
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