Who's had the Covid vaccine? Anyone going to refuse it?

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irmscher
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Re: Who's had the Covid vaccine? Anyone going to refuse it?

Post by irmscher »

I had the AZ vaccine no side effects whatsoever .We have the finest and bravest health service in the world and should be given a pay rise :D
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Re: Who's had the Covid vaccine? Anyone going to refuse it?

Post by Nickol »

The EU are under a certain amount of pressure from within because of the share policy. They have exported 49 mio doses of vaccine abroad for which 10mio went to GB . This was due to the very high death rate ( the highest in europe) and infection rate around dec early jan. GB on the other hand have exported Null....NULL. So people are asking, especially the nationalists in individual member states who share similar views to a lot of people in GB, that nothing should be exported.
The more intelligent commentators point out that the raw material for the covid vaccine come from many sources and should every country adopt the NULL export ruling then nothing will get produced, not enough anyway.
Again it is reported that the British govt have no export ban but it is the manufacturers who are not exporting anything. ? There must be a reason for this. Is this the Global Britain we have heard so much about? Could it be that the penalties that the manufacturers face due to a shortfall in supply are onerous?

AZ have such a bad press that many people prefer to wait until Biontach becomes avaialble. Again, there is something strange going on because more cases of people dying after being vaccinated with AZ are being reported - viz: Sana Klinik Berlin yesterday.

We probably will not know the truth for a few months
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Re: Who's had the Covid vaccine? Anyone going to refuse it?

Post by geoberni »

My personal theory is that 'Big Pharma' are trying to undermine AZ because it is being distributed at cost price for the benefit of everyone globally, whereas the big competitor companies are seeing $$$$.
So if they can reduce public confidence in AZ, the profits will come for the rest of them....
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Re: Who's had the Covid vaccine? Anyone going to refuse it?

Post by Trickydicky »

Had my jab a week ago felt RAF for about 3 days after, washed me out and felt achy. After the 3rd day came around and now feel fine.
Interesting to see the European countries with a low take up of the vaccine seem now to be paying the price for it with a 3rd wave. Our figures show the vaccine appears to be making the difference.
I just hope that with all the data produced over the course of the past year will be the difference to understanding how to manage a pandemic situation.
Richard

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Re: Who's had the Covid vaccine? Anyone going to refuse it?

Post by Nickol »

I was interested to see if it was true that the countries in mainland europe were in a third wave, so I had a look at the statistik. Indeed many are. But also some are not. Portugal , for example had a huge wave in second half of January and now virtually nothing. I wonder where they got a vaccine from, certainly not from GB of course. Others such as Lithuania, even Slovakia do not. Elsewhere in the world, Ethiopia is hard hit I see. Even New Zealand which was virtually zero new cases suddenly had 20 out of nowhere!

There are quite a lot of articles on the Web to read in languages I understand and all highlight production difficulties of the major Manufacturers and not only AZ but it is accused of not distributing what it can produce fairly. Here is a quote from reuters
AstraZeneca told EU officials that the UK is using a clause in its supply contract that prevents export of its vaccines until the British market is fully served

This website describes the costs that some countries paid

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n281

The Spanish flu epidemic of 1919/20 which killed millions went into a third wave world wide and then petered out, not totally erased until the 1940s
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Re: Who's had the Covid vaccine? Anyone going to refuse it?

Post by liammonty »

Nickol wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:50 pm The EU are under a certain amount of pressure from within because of the share policy. They have exported 49 mio doses of vaccine abroad for which 10mio went to GB . This was due to the very high death rate ( the highest in europe) and infection rate around dec early jan. GB on the other hand have exported Null....NULL. So people are asking, especially the nationalists in individual member states who share similar views to a lot of people in GB, that nothing should be exported.
The more intelligent commentators point out that the raw material for the covid vaccine come from many sources and should every country adopt the NULL export ruling then nothing will get produced, not enough anyway.
Again it is reported that the British govt have no export ban but it is the manufacturers who are not exporting anything. ? There must be a reason for this. Is this the Global Britain we have heard so much about? Could it be that the penalties that the manufacturers face due to a shortfall in supply are onerous?

AZ have such a bad press that many people prefer to wait until Biontach becomes avaialble. Again, there is something strange going on because more cases of people dying after being vaccinated with AZ are being reported - viz: Sana Klinik Berlin yesterday.

We probably will not know the truth for a few months
I think it's worth pointing out that it's not necessarily that the EU are exporting vaccines through, is it?! It happens that the companies manufacturing the vaccines are based in the EU or in the UK. I don't think it's the great generosity of the EU, or indeed the terrible wickedness of the UK that is the controlling factor in what is exported, rather the agreements that the manufacturers have in place with governments. Regarding clinical trials, all of the approved vaccines have been through standard clinical trial programmes of phases 1, 2 and 3, and my understanding is that safety and efficacy data are good for all that have been approved. It is most unfortunate that politics are being brought into this within the EU, and also highly concerning that leaders (particularly Macron, who in my opinion has behaved particularly badly) have contributed hugely to increasing fear of vaccines and 'anti-vax' sentiment to satisfy their own political games. People will pay a high price because of that for years to come.
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Re: Who's had the Covid vaccine? Anyone going to refuse it?

Post by jagnut66 »

Indeed,
The more intelligent commentators
realise that this is down to political gameplaying, allot of which is coming from within the EU.
One of the reason the UK is ahead is because we took a chance on the vaccines and jumped on the bandwagon / signed a contract first, which has proved a boon for the people of this country. Had other states / countries agreed to take a chance and go with the vaccines earlier then the UK would be further behind with it's rollout because the vaccines would have been spread out accross other states / countries and, as we are finding, supply can't be guaranteed to match demand.
Which could be laid on the manufacturing companies doorstep for overstating (or being overconfident in) their capacity to supply.
As for Astra Zenica, then come on EU, if anything the people of the UK have been your unintentional 'Guinea Pigs' here and we are surviving because of it.
Wake up, smell the coffee and start dishing out those supplies of AZ vaccine that you are sitting on and start saving peoples lives!
Best wishes,
Mike.
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Re: Who's had the Covid vaccine? Anyone going to refuse it?

Post by Nickol »

There are a lot of sceptics about but also many people getting turned away from the vaccination centres because the supplies are not there.

But it gets more interesting so something strange is going on - I have just heard that AZ in the news again are sitting on 29 mio doses in Italy and that it has been reported that old stock was sent to EU member states which may account for the blood clot incidences. This could be conspiracy theory though. what is unclear at the moment is what AZ were intending to do with all the doses.

The problem with supply worldwide with the vaccine raw material is expalined in the link I posted before.
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Re: Who's had the Covid vaccine? Anyone going to refuse it?

Post by Nickol »

I think it's worth pointing out that it's not necessarily that the EU are exporting vaccines through, is it?! It happens that the companies manufacturing the vaccines are based in the EU or in the UK. I don't think it's the great generosity of the EU, or indeed the terrible wickedness of the UK that is the controlling factor in what is exported, rather the agreements that the manufacturers have in place with governments.
[/quote]

Not quite. Were the UK still a EU member state then there would be no controls on exports or indeed imports to and from. But as UK is now a third country, other rules come into play. And yes the manufacturers do have agreements/contracts on supply which they are all finding difficult to fulfill. The complaint is that AZ, which should supply from memory about a fifth of the total is distributing its stock unfairly - whatever that means?

i am a bit sceptical on the statements that the company is supplying at cost. AZ have the advantage over BioNtech , for example that their product is very cheap to produce. Nevertheless, some countries e.g South Africa have been critisised for paying over the odds.

The plot thickens and it gets more interesting by the minute.
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Re: Who's had the Covid vaccine? Anyone going to refuse it?

Post by geoberni »

hello Nickol
As you say, the Conspiracy theories are being fed all the time.
Although Italian officials claim to have 'found' 29M doses of AZ vaccine which has riled some member states to scream 'stockpiling', AZ have said it's 13M doses destined for low-income countries, the remaining 16 M doses will go to Europe after quality controls, with 10M doses to be delivered to the EU during the last week in March and the remainder in April.
But from what I hear, it's in bulk containers at the moment, awaiting an Italian company to put it in the small bottles and label it.

Also, some EU officials suspect that some of the substances used to make the doses could have originated from a much-scrutinised plant in the Netherlands contracted to make the active ingredients for AstraZeneca but which has been unable to deliver to the EU because it does not have authorisation from the European Medicines Agency, due to EU Commission bureaucracy taking it's time.

So the vaccine is there, some EU states are wanting it, but the paperwork pushers haven't cleared it. :roll:

Sounds about right....

I'm sure we'll hear more in the coming days.

As to the bit about AZ providing it at 'cost' I believe that is only while we are in the 'Pandemic' and that normal market forces will apply afterwards. That again could be a reason for other companies to be running a smear campaign against them as presumably it could give them a phycological marketing advantage, once things settle down....
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Re: Who's had the Covid vaccine? Anyone going to refuse it?

Post by jagnut66 »

That again could be a reason for other companies to be running a smear campaign against them as presumably it could give them a phycological marketing advantage, once things settle down....
It would paint them as the 'good guys' and other companires won't like that......
Best wishes,
Mike.
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Re: Who's had the Covid vaccine? Anyone going to refuse it?

Post by Matt »

What I read yesterday/today is that

- No AZ vaccines have gone from the EU to the UK (except a "tiny" batch)
- The Vaccines that have come to the UK from the EU are the Phizer ones.
- Phizer are meeting their commitment to the EU.
- The UK is exporting components which are crucial to the production of the Phizer vaccine.

So, as I read it, the EU can now potentially "restrict" exports from companies that are not delivering their (lets say their perceived as it still seems to be under discussions) commitment to the EU (i.e. AZ) - but as Phizer are meeting commitments then they will still be able to export and its going to make sod all difference to the UK. However if the UK decided to stop the export of components it could end up being far worse for the EU? I think we have to remember that exporting vaccines isn't just the finished products.

But... it also seems that the EU is sitting on a stockpile of the AZ vaccine anyway and only seem to use 40-60% of what they are getting? I'm sure the UK has significant wastage (not that we are hearing that) but I would imagine we are between 90 and 98% utilisation - which makes a huge difference to the numbers. Personally to me it sounds like the EUs biggest issue is not supply, more efficient distribution and utilisation? Its not that surprising the UK vaccination figures are much higher when you consider it was licenced earlier, orders were placed earlier and there is a massive mobilisation and volunteering effort for people to vaccinate (which I haven't heard anything about the other side of the channel).

Obviously, we all have to remember that we are getting the propaganda message from our respective governments and what we are reading, at best, has a significant amount of spin! Every country/bloc has made errors - the best we can hope for (yeah right...) is that if something similar happens in the future we are all (globally) in a much better place to deal with it.

Anyway - I'm not old enough, and I'm healthy enough not to have been called for the vaccine yet. I'm reasonably confident that if I got it, then it wouldn't cause me massive problems - but when my time comes I will get the jab whichever flavour it is...
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Re: Who's had the Covid vaccine? Anyone going to refuse it?

Post by geoberni »

Yes, this morning on TV they had a report from inside the UK plant bottling up the AZ and staff said they are exhausted from working 7 day weeks.
Only available today, but if nobody saw it earlier, see this from about the 2:12:00 mark.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m ... t-26032021

Whereas the report earlier in the week from Italy was that all those doses were sat waiting for the Italians to get their asses in gear and put it in the small bottles...
:roll:
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Re: Who's had the Covid vaccine? Anyone going to refuse it?

Post by simmitc »

As to utilisation, the UK manages to get 11 doses out of a 10 dose bottle. Also remember my early hint to get on a short notice reserve list, and Nikol's response that the Germans would not dare to run like that, referring all decisions to a higher level. I want to avoid national stereotyping, but there's a moral in there somewhere.
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Re: Who's had the Covid vaccine? Anyone going to refuse it?

Post by jagnut66 »

Seems to me the EU's biggest problem is the EU itself......
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Re: Who's had the Covid vaccine? Anyone going to refuse it?

Post by Chappers »

"Anyway - I'm not old enough, and I'm healthy enough not to have been called for the vaccine yet. I'm reasonably confident that if I got it, then it wouldn't cause me massive problems - but when my time comes I will get the jab whichever flavour it is..."

Matt, Your either brave, ignorant or stupid (and I say that with the utmost respect to you).
You just cannot be sure with this virus. It affects people very differently.
I wonder how many of the one hundred and twenty six thousand people who have died in the UK to date, thought they would overcome the infection?

Don't just assume you will be ok. Many people are unaware that they may have underlying health issues.

We ALL have to respect and be wary of this virus and the current pandemic, true we have to look on the bright side of life -but don't assume anything.

Keep safe
Regards,

Mark
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Re: Who's had the Covid vaccine? Anyone going to refuse it?

Post by morris van »

I had my jab at 5pm yesterday just feeling a bit tired and hot but ok. Two people I know had the virus last March she was 70 and survived and her fit and healthy son of 44 died of the virus.

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Re: Who's had the Covid vaccine? Anyone going to refuse it?

Post by Nickol »

What a tragic example and a lesson to us all, despite the high statistical recovery rate, to take this virus very seriously.
My doctor relation has told me that in Holland , they do not put anybody over 80 in intensive care any more because even if they survive ( only less than half do) they are practically confined to lie on bed for the rest of their days.
Like "Morrisvan" quoted, on our TV was a chap, mid 40s who used to regularly run Marathons before his covid infection last year and one year after intensive care where he was in artificail coma for weeks, he is struggling to even walk properly again and is exhauseted after only a few steps.

You should however, not pre-judge the EU member states as a block . The EU commission is only involved with basic procurement and all member states can and do order vaccines from outside. The Sputnik V ( pending approval) is , for example being supplied to Hungary and also the vaccine from China to other places. Political observers pose the question of what influence this may have.

I have often heard people say " when the pandomie is over, I am going to do this or that"....but now I am beginning to wonder whether it will ever be over?
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Re: Who's had the Covid vaccine? Anyone going to refuse it?

Post by jagnut66 »

but now I am beginning to wonder whether it will ever be over?
Basically it will never actually go away completely. It will go around in cycles, like the flu.
We have developed vaccines and they will doubtless be constantly reviewed and adapted, if neccessary, to new strains.
It will go from a pandemic to being simply endemic, like flu.
We will simply have to learn to live with it.
I think we are all at the end of our mental tethers with lockdowns, so they have to end and we have to get on with life.
Best wishes,
Mike.
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Re: Who's had the Covid vaccine? Anyone going to refuse it?

Post by morris van »

I had my jab on Saturday and still not feeling 100%. I still have bit of a temperature and never felt so hot.

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