Constantly flooding when trying to cold start

Discuss mechanical problems here.
geoberni
Minor Legend
Posts: 1503
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:19 am
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: Constantly flooding when trying to cold start

Postby geoberni » Mon Oct 05, 2020 8:56 am

oliver90owner wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:48 am

I, too, lost a posting yesterday morning (turned off computer too quickly as I was in a rush, I think) where I was asking if the spark check was with the starter motor operating.
:-?
Given that the car wouldn't start, there's few people that understand ignition systems sufficiently to be able to do a 'spark check' without turning it over on the Starter.
Plus, it's pretty fiddly making and breaking the points manually to do so.
I think only a very committed and experienced owner would try to.
I certainly wouldn't unless I had run out of all other ideas.

Unless you're thinking of some easy way to do so that I don't know of? :)
Basil the 1955 series II

Image

Trickydicky
Minor Legend
Posts: 1559
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:53 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: Constantly flooding when trying to cold start

Postby Trickydicky » Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:15 am

oliver90owner wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:48 am
Plus you have now fitted a heavy duty battery which will take longer to charge.

Perhaps you could explain/expand on this, please? ‘Cos I disagree - unless discharged to a degree of capacity more than the lighter duty battery!

I, too, lost a posting yesterday morning (turned off computer too quickly as I was in a rush, I think) where I was asking if the spark check was with the starter motor operating.

The reasons being that the starter would cause a voltage drop, any poor battery/earth contacts would reduce the voltage at the coil, and firing voltage at the plugs (under compression and with an over-rich mixture) would need to be higher than needed for an air test.

All things that need to be considered/checked when carrying out simple checks. One can get by without a multimeter, but they are a very useful diagnostic tool.
A larger capacity battery is like a bucket of water, the bigger the bucket the longer it will take to fill.
Richard

Opinions are like people,everyone can be different.

oliver90owner
Minor Addict
Posts: 986
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 6:33 am
MMOC Member: No

Re: Constantly flooding when trying to cold start

Postby oliver90owner » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:21 pm

Trickydicky wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:15 am

A larger capacity battery is like a bucket of water, the bigger the bucket the longer it will take to fill.
Really? If I have two buckets and pour out one gallon from each, you are trying to tell me that it would take longer to re-fill the larger bucket? Try again, but please don’t try to bovine excrement me.🙂

geoberni
Minor Legend
Posts: 1503
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:19 am
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: Constantly flooding when trying to cold start

Postby geoberni » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:47 pm

oliver90owner wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:21 pm
Trickydicky wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:15 am

A larger capacity battery is like a bucket of water, the bigger the bucket the longer it will take to fill.
Really? If I have two buckets and pour out one gallon from each, you are trying to tell me that it would take longer to re-fill the larger bucket? Try again, but please don’t try to bovine excrement me.🙂
I think the assumption is that whatever the size of battery, if you've got it, you'll use it; the temptation is to keep cranking the car over, and over, and over, thus you've taken more water from the larger bucket..... :lol:
If 'Lucy' has a Dynamo, it's got a lower maximum output so would take quite a while longer to charge up a larger capacity battery.
Basil the 1955 series II

Image

oliver90owner
Minor Addict
Posts: 986
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 6:33 am
MMOC Member: No

Re: Constantly flooding when trying to cold

Postby oliver90owner » Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:04 pm

Geoberni,

Please don’t try to move the goalposts. Just consider what he said.

He said ‘a larger bucket takes longer to fill than a smaller bucket’ in the context of replenishment of lost charge in a battery.

I maintain that with same rate of filling the times will be identical. Immaterial of whether a large, or small, capacity battery. The argument has to be based on a level playing field. Moving the goalposts, part way through, is not a fair assessment of the situation. I thank you for your attempt at reconciling the differences, but the Initial question remains unanswered. What is the difference between replenishing a larger, or smaller, battery discharged by the same amount of energy?

geoberni
Minor Legend
Posts: 1503
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:19 am
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: Constantly flooding when trying to cold

Postby geoberni » Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:22 am

oliver90owner wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:04 pm
I thank you for your attempt at reconciling the differences, but ....
Well there's a whole load of factors involved, but since I have no intention of turning this topic into some theological discussion about Battery charging rates, I'll bid you adieu.
Basil the 1955 series II

Image

mobylette
Minor Fan
Posts: 194
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 5:02 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: Constantly flooding when trying to cold start

Postby mobylette » Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:45 am

I have read that: "Larger batteries of the same type and voltage hold more energy, measured in Watt-hours, which is simply their rated Amp-hours times their voltage. So they take longer to charge at the same voltage and amperage."

oliver90owner
Minor Addict
Posts: 986
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 6:33 am
MMOC Member: No

Re: Constantly flooding when trying to cold start

Postby oliver90owner » Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:26 am

mobylette wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:45 am
I have read that: "Larger batteries of the same type and voltage hold more energy, measured in Watt-hours, which is simply their rated Amp-hours times their voltage. So they take longer to charge at the same voltage and amperage."
Of course that is true, but once charged that disparity is gone - totally. Take out the same amount of charge from either, and then replacing it, will need the same amount of replenishment for either the smaller or larger capacity battery. Sure if the battery size difference was huge, the larger battery might need a bit more - but that would be completely insignificant for different battery sizes used in a Morris Minor. On the other hand, of course, the larger capacity battery will be discharging at a lower ‘C’ rate, so may well need very slightly less recharge energy - but that is far too deep a consideration in this scenario.

Possibly need slightly less, if the battery chemistry is advantageous. You need to read more carefully what is written down. I expect they were quite right in what they wrote. Do try to get more water in either of those two buckets (quoted by trickydicky), when they are already full, and just watch what happens!🙂

philthehill
Minor Maniac
Posts: 8134
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:05 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: Constantly flooding when trying to cold start

Postby philthehill » Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:01 pm

All getting a bit too technical in my view - It does not matter how large the battery is - just charge it till it is charged and use. Once the engine is started the vehicles charging system will automatically top up the battery by however much charge is needed.
Phil


Alice Minor
Minor Friendly
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:12 am
MMOC Member: No

Re: Constantly flooding when trying to cold start

Postby Alice Minor » Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:37 pm

myoldjalopy wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 8:39 am
I am glad that you have got 'Lucy' going again. Let us know if you have any more issues. She did seem to start with a bit of a struggle - a Minor in tip-top working condition should start more or less on the first cranking of the starter. I know you said she was serviced in July but, if it were me, I would treat her to a new set of new points and a condensor from Distributor Doctor (his stuff is quality), also check the plug condition and their gaps. But fingers crossed for happy motoring 8)


Hiya

I know what you mean about she started but seemed to struggle , since my dad’s passing and I’ve been using her which is about 11 months she’s pretty much started great in the morning and after work where she’s stood outside for 9 hours and sometimes covered in snow BUT she never starts 1st try , it’s always 2nd try , don’t ask why but she does, if you read my post I did say I left the choke in the first 3 try’s, I was trying to see how fast she turned over with the new battery on, she just happened to splutter so I thought I’d have another 2 try’s before pulling the choke out , maybe it upset her when she backfired and stalled , even on half choke I was beginning to think she wasn’t gonna start but she did , she started 1st try yesterday morning on half choke after about 3 seconds on the key , same after work yesterday, 1st try this morning on half choke and as it’s so warm today I tried without choke and she started 3rd try but took a little bit warming up before I was able to pull away then she was kangarooy and only stalled twice so was chuffed with her

Alice x

myoldjalopy
Minor Legend
Posts: 1544
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:32 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: Constantly flooding when trying to cold start

Postby myoldjalopy » Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:44 pm

OK, great. I do think you will need a little choke, especially at this time of the year, to prevent any kangerooing /stalling at first until she is warmed up.

Alice Minor
Minor Friendly
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:12 am
MMOC Member: No

Re: Constantly flooding when trying to cold start

Postby Alice Minor » Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:24 pm

myoldjalopy wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:44 pm
OK, great. I do think you will need a little choke, especially at this time of the year, to prevent any kangerooing /stalling at first until she is warmed up.


Hi

Point taken , normally I wouldn’t have tried after work in October without choke , I was just seeing if the new battery made any difference cos she’s spinning over so fast , it’s like a battery that’s almost flat , although it will turn the engine over it’s got no chance of starting it , if I’d had the old battery on she wouldn’t have started without choke , anyway she started 1st try this morning, half choke , that’s 3 mornings in a row so I believe it’s all sorted 👍

myoldjalopy
Minor Legend
Posts: 1544
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:32 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: Constantly flooding when trying to cold start

Postby myoldjalopy » Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:09 pm

Fantastic news - long live 'Lucy'! 8)

simmitc
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3869
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:43 am
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: Constantly flooding when trying to cold start

Postby simmitc » Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:53 pm

Long live tangents 8)

myoldjalopy
Minor Legend
Posts: 1544
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:32 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: Constantly flooding when trying to cold start

Postby myoldjalopy » Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:09 pm

Er.......are you sure? :roll: :lol:

simmitc
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3869
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:43 am
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: Constantly flooding when trying to cold start

Postby simmitc » Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:51 pm

Absolutely, page 1 of the topic "I'm going to go off at a tangent: How old is the battery?...". New battery, problem solved, tangents rule :lol:

myoldjalopy
Minor Legend
Posts: 1544
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:32 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: Constantly flooding when trying to cold start

Postby myoldjalopy » Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:55 pm

Ha ha! Oh, I see...... I thought you meant this page! :lol:

Alice Minor
Minor Friendly
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:12 am
MMOC Member: No

Re: Constantly flooding when trying to cold start

Postby Alice Minor » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:05 am

simmitc wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:51 pm
Absolutely, page 1 of the topic "I'm going to go off at a tangent: How old is the battery?...". New battery, problem solved, tangents rule :lol:

Hi Simon

Sorry I totally missed your post , the battery that was on Lucy was approx 5 yrs old and the man at the car parts shop said “ past it’s best “ , he fitted the new battery for me as well so a bonus 😂 , she’s been absolutely fine since the new battery went on , hasn’t failed to start from cold, hasn’t needed anymore than 50% choke either , now and again the choke will slide fully in on its own , usually when she’s very cold ie , backing her out the garage and she’ll stall on me , then she might take 2 or 3 try’s to restart her but battery wise ....... all sorted x

kevin s
Minor Addict
Posts: 601
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:20 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: Constantly flooding when trying to cold start

Postby kevin s » Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:04 pm

A wooden clothes peg used to be the common fix to stop the choke turning it's self off, pull the choke out and put it on the shaft behind the knob, just pull it off when you no longer need the choke.


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests