Fan belt slips

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oliver90owner
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Re: Fan belt slips

Post by oliver90owner »

Looking again at the pic, it looks like the bush in the rear mount is missing? Backs up what myself and Shropshire moggie think re that video. Likely what is making the pulley appear (and possibly be) at an angle to the other pulleys.

There should not be a washer between the rear flange and the mount.
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Re: Fan belt slips

Post by philthehill »

With the original Lucas dynamo there is no split bush for the rear mount flange - only with the alternator was a split bush used in the rear mount flange. The rear mount flange of the alternator was free to move fore and aft on the split bush to obtain the correct alignment with the front mount situated on the water pump.
The dynamo rear mounting bracket had slots for the mounting bolts so enabling the bracket to be adjusted to allow it to sit against the rear mount bracket of the dynamo once the front of the dynamo was secured in place.
If the rear mount of the dynamo has a larger hole than the size of the bolt holding the rear of the dynamo you have the wrong rear dynamo mount bracket. There are several types of rear mount bracket for both dynamo and alternator.

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Re: Fan belt slips

Post by Gerard1234 »

If I disconnect the fan belt , the waterpump en dynamo don't turn when I start the car
However the sound is still there, so it is somewhere in the flywheel of the engine block

What should I do to fix that
philthehill
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Re: Fan belt slips

Post by philthehill »

Have you checked the crankshaft pulley for damage.

If the crankshaft pulley is ok it may be the timing chain and/or the tensioners rings causing the problem.

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geoberni
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Re: Fan belt slips

Post by geoberni »

Oh Boy...
So we can rule out anything belt driven then.
This is going to be hard now, without actually being there.

It's very hard to make it out on the short video, but I would say we can rule out the top part of the engine, the valves etc, as it sounds more like something rotating.
Perhaps the Distributor? Try a few drips of light oil down the Distributor shaft.
Lube.JPG
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I'm going to be very interested in what ideas our really knowledgable engine experts have...
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Gerard1234
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Re: Fan belt slips

Post by Gerard1234 »

The crankshaft pulley looks ok

I am afraid that is perhaps a bearing behind the crankshaft
Maybe the chain has to be replaced as well but I don't know if I can do that myself

A garage is not so cheap in Holland at the moment and I was thinking what is wisdom
Repairing the engine or look for a rebuilt one, the last will not give me problems for many years I think

But if I can do it myself it will be cheaper...
philthehill wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:17 am Have you checked the crankshaft pulley for damage.

If the crankshaft pulley is ok it may be the timing chain and/or the tensioners rings causing the problem.
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Re: Fan belt slips

Post by Gerard1234 »

The sound comes more from the engine not the distributor
geoberni wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:24 am Oh Boy...
So we can rule out anything belt driven then.
This is going to be hard now, without actually being there.

It's very hard to make it out on the short video, but I would say we can rule out the top part of the engine, the valves etc, as it sounds more like something rotating.
Perhaps the Distributor? Try a few drips of light oil down the Distributor shaft.
Lube.JPG
I'm going to be very interested in what ideas our really knowledgable engine experts have...
philthehill
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Re: Fan belt slips

Post by philthehill »

To examine and if necessary replace the timing chain and timing chain tensioning rubbers is a relatively easy job and can be undertaken by the home mechanic.
There is plenty of guidance on here if you use the search facility.

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Re: Fan belt slips

Post by Gerard1234 »

philthehill wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:58 am To examine and if necessary replace the timing chain and timing chain tensioning rubbers is a relatively easy job and can be undertaken by the home mechanic.
There is plenty of guidance on here if you use the search facility.

Ok Thanks for the Message
I think I Will order the Parts
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geoberni
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Re: Fan belt slips

Post by geoberni »

Gerard1234 wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:02 pm
Ok Thanks for the Message
I think I Will order the Parts
Or you could take the cover off and examine it first before spending on something you have only been told 'may' be the problem..... :roll:
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Re: Fan belt slips

Post by Gerard1234 »

geoberni wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:22 pm
Gerard1234 wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:02 pm
Ok Thanks for the Message
I think I Will order the Parts
Or you could take the cover off and examine it first before spending on something you have only been told 'may' be the problem..... :roll:
Maybe a sily question but How do you check it?
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geoberni
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Re: Fan belt slips

Post by geoberni »

Use the site Search facility and you will find lots of posts about Timing Chains.

For example this one from earlier this year.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=73188
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Gerard1234
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Re: Fan belt slips

Post by Gerard1234 »

I made a small clip from the engine
maybe this ons is more clear


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0SdPZTi9T8
philthehill
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Re: Fan belt slips

Post by philthehill »

The noise is very much like that made by the chain when it is so slack that it is hitting the inside of the timing chain cover when you increase or decrease the revs.
The original twin timing chain tensioner rubbers are not very good and are of a poor design. They soon shrink and loose their ability to hold the timing chain tight so removing any slack in the chain.
I always recommend that the simplex chain and rubber tensioner rings are replaced with at least the duplex set up.
You can also replace with the later 'A' Plus timing chain tensioner set up with the simplex chain set up.
The best solution overall and used on my 1380cc engine is the duplex set up with tensioner.
See link above (geoberni post) for details on timing chain, sprocket and tensioner replacement.

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Re: Fan belt slips

Post by Gerard1234 »

Oké Thanks for the answere
Tomorrow I Will look at the chain if there is a lot of slack

quote=philthehill post_id=673167 time=1635346197 user_id=17277]
The noise is very much like that made by the chain when it is so slack that it is hitting the inside of the timing chain cover when you increase or decrease the revs.
The original twin timing chain tensioner rubbers are not very good and are of a poor design. They soon shrink and loose their ability to hold the timing chain tight so removing any slack in the chain.
I always recommend that the simplex chain and rubber tensioner rings are replaced with at least the duplex set up.
You can also replace with the later 'A' Plus timing chain tensioner set up with the simplex chain set up.
The best solution overall and used on my 1380cc engine is the duplex set up with tensioner.
See link above (geoberni post) for details on timing chain, sprocket and tensioner replacement.
[/quote]
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geoberni
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Re: Fan belt slips

Post by geoberni »

Now I've listened to the new clip, I agree with Phil that it could very well be the timing chain slack.

A few years ago my wife had a Corsa 1ltr which had a timing chain and they are renown for slack timing chains after anything between 40,000 and 100,000 miles. Hers had done about 60K and was starting to rattle quite a bit when idling.
The garage I had change it said most of the ones he changed also needed the cover changed, as the chains wore through them while slapping around.
Ours we had changed before that happened. :wink:

But still worth taking a look at yours before buying replacements.
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Gerard1234
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Re: Fan belt slips

Post by Gerard1234 »

Tomorrow I want to check the chain and I will make pictures of it maybe you’re alright and that’s the problem

geoberni wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:09 pm Now I've listened to the new clip, I agree with Phil that it could very well be the timing chain slack.

A few years ago my wife had a Corsa 1ltr which had a timing chain and they are renown for slack timing chains after anything between 40,000 and 100,000 miles. Hers had done about 60K and was starting to rattle quite a bit when idling.
The garage I had change it said most of the ones he changed also needed the cover changed, as the chains wore through them while slapping around.
Ours we had changed before that happened. :wink:

But still worth taking a look at yours before buying replacements.
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Re: Fan belt slips

Post by Gerard1234 »

I found the problem....

I couldn't remove the crank schaft bolt or whatever the name is of that thing
But when I looked under the car I saw a piece of metal which was close to the flywheel

I have bent it a bit backwards and the sound is gone...
So happy that I didn't have to take the rest apart :)
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geoberni
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Re: Fan belt slips

Post by geoberni »

I would guess that is the remains of the timing marks ..... :roll:

Page 82 of the Manual....

I'm glad you took a look before ordering a new timing chain. But in the long term, you'll need to sort out a new timing mark.
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philthehill
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Re: Fan belt slips

Post by philthehill »

If your engine is a 948cc unit I would recommend that instead of just fitting a new timing mark to the old cover you fit the later timing chain cover with neoprene crankshaft pulley seal. The 1098cc engine was fitted with a timing cover with neoprene seal as standard.
Some timing covers have the neoprene fitted from the inside of the timing chain cover and some have the neoprene seal fitted from the outside of the cover. Both types are acceptable and both do the job. When fitting the neoprene sealed timing chain cover you will need to fit the flat oil thrower washer and discard the cupped/concave oil thrower washer. The flat oil thrower washer is marked 'F' for front.
I would advise that you check the fore and aft float of the crankshaft in the block. The end float should not be more than 0.004".
The reason I advise you check the end float is that the noise of the timing marks against the pulley was not continuous so the crankshaft was moving fore and aft. It may be perfectly ok but I would check anyway.

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