clutch judder

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Rob_Jennings
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clutch judder

Postby Rob_Jennings » Mon Oct 09, 2006 10:34 am

OK, I know its just one of those little things that makes it a moggy, but my clutch judder seems to be getting worse. Reverse has always been poor, but it is now getting quite pronounced in first too.

Any ideas on how to reduce this?

So far the things I can see that need obvious work are:

Engine mounts are very soft, so I have a pair to replace them, can you do this by carefully jacking under the block? will that give me enough clearance to swap them over or is it a much bigger job than that?

Engine steady bar rubbers very worn, so I'll renew those at the same time as above.

I have not checked the gear box steady cable or mounts, and I guess I should also look at the pedal pivot for worn bushes?

Should I be checking for play in the gearbox, drive shaft, diff? might it be an indication of rear springs getting soggy (they look pretty old and it is on my growing list of things I might do)?

I'd be grateful for any advice on the problem.

Cheers
Rob
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Kevin
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Postby Kevin » Mon Oct 09, 2006 10:45 am

I would leave the engine mountings until last as the modern ones are a bit hard and not as forgiving as the originals and unless they are perishing or coming away from the mounting dont worry.
1st thing have you made sure the clutch is adjusted properly and renew the steady bushes and check the pedal pivots if there is no improvement, if the steady cable needs renewing dont do it up too tight as this will cause vibrations.
So eliminate the easy to do things 1st and then see where you are.
Cheers

Kevin
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Rob_Jennings
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Postby Rob_Jennings » Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:20 am

I adjusted the clutch when I serviced the car a few months ago, about 4-5 cm of free play and actual bite point is about 1/2 - 2/3 down on the pedal, so that feels fine to drive. (was alomst on the floor before I adjusted it)

How soft should the engine mounts be? those in the car at the moment can easily be compressed by hand which is what made me wonder if they are past their best and allowing too much movement?

I would also suspect the gear box mounts are in a similar state as from the history I have the engine and gear box were changed together some 7-8 years ago, so perhaps it was the 'new' mounts used at that time?
Rob
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Kevin
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Postby Kevin » Mon Oct 09, 2006 1:20 pm

How soft should the engine mounts be? those in the car at the moment can easily be compressed by hand which is what made me wonder if they are past their best and allowing too much movement?
They should have a bit of give whereas the ones supplied in recent years have been very hard, so it does sound like yours are getting past their best.
Cheers

Kevin
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Rob_Jennings
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Postby Rob_Jennings » Mon Oct 09, 2006 1:37 pm

That is my feeling from looking at them. So replacing them is a block of wood under the sump and gently lift engine up enough to replace? is there enough slack to do it that way?

I'll be crawling under tonight if its dry to inspect the gear box mounts and steady cable as well as having a good look at the clutch linkage
Rob
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Postby Stig » Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:39 pm

You'll probably be able to do it that way but I suspect it'll mean removing the mount towers to get at the engine mounts. Only four bolts each but they can be a pain to undo. Careful of the heater tap when you jack up the engine, it's usually the first thing to foul the body.

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Postby 57traveller » Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:14 pm

Afer eliminating all the usual and easy suspects on my Traveller and still judder in reverse to the point that the flared end of the exhaust pipe eventually cracked :cry: , it did turn out to be the engine mounting rubbers. Kevin is right about the new rubber being too hard - the judder's gone but vibration is now evident which seems to reduce considerably as the engine and subsequently the rubber gets hotter! It is a bit annoying but better than having to renew the exhaust system every once in a while. :roll:

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Postby RogerRust » Mon Oct 09, 2006 7:29 pm

I had the same problem with my traveller and it was thw gear box mounts. After changing them I could reverse uphill smartly with no unpleasant juddering.
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Postby bmcecosse » Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:08 pm

Or it could be oil on the clutch plate - is there oil dripping out past the split pin ?
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Postby RogerRust » Tue Oct 10, 2006 6:24 am

The unpleasant juddering must have been me! Alright since I started taking the tablets. :wink:

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Postby Rob_Jennings » Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:50 am

Well it was nice and dry but too dark by the time I got home from work :-( I do not like this time of year, sigh

Oil on the clutch plate is a worry as it has got worse quite quickly over the last few weeks, and in first gear too which it never did before. inspecting the clutch plate is no easy thing I would guess?
Rob
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Willie
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engine mounts

Postby Willie » Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:51 am

ROB, you must release one of the engine mount towers from the chassis
in order to comfortably renew the front mounting rubbers it is an extremely
difficult job if you don't. Using new pattern rubbers on my car ruined the
smooth running until Kevin found me some geniune types.
Willie
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Rob_Jennings
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Postby Rob_Jennings » Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:56 am

I'll take your word for it, but why would I need to unbolt one tower?

is this so I can 'twist' the engine a little to do one at a time?
Rob
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Postby bmcecosse » Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:19 pm

Yes! There is a rubber bung on the side of the gearbox bellhousing - often falls off with age - and through there you will be able to shine a torch and see if oil seems excessive. Or if there is oil dripping out the split pin it's definitely excessive!
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Re: engine mounts

Postby Squiggle » Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:40 pm

Willie wrote:ROB, you must release one of the engine mount towers from the chassis
in order to comfortably renew the front mounting rubbers it is an extremely difficult job if you don't. Using new pattern rubbers on my car ruined the smooth running until Kevin found me some geniune types.

Oh er?
I need to replace my engine and gearbox mountings. On order from Bull Motif. Will they be the genuine types Kevin?


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Willie
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mounts

Postby Willie » Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:25 pm

ROB, yes, if you do not release one mounting tower the rubber mounts will
not just drop into position and some potentially damaging leverage will be
required, much easier to remove one tower.
Willie
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Postby Squiggle » Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:31 pm

I ordered new fixing bolts for the mountings too. Was that being too paranoid?


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0-60 eventually

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bolts

Postby Willie » Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:26 pm

If you mean bolts for the engine towers to chassis then that was a good move
as I had a heck of a job finding suitable spanners for the originals(some of these Minor bolts are a law unto themselves).
Willie
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Postby Rob_Jennings » Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:09 am

thanks guys, so collected information I now have suggest the following options to reduce this problem.

1: obvious point
check for oil on clutch plate and general function of clutch, including pedal adjustment and bushes

2: check engine mounts, possibly replace but consider that new ones are rather solid so increased noise through the body

3: check gear box mounts, and the mounting points on the cross member are sound, if replacement of the rubber mounts is required then this is best done from inside the car.

4: reverse judder might be the brakes clipping when wheel is in reverse, so possible solution is to file the 'back' of the shoe to reduce chances of this catching on the drum

5: throughly check condition of rear springs and dampers.



hummm I think it would be really useful to have a wiki site for all this type of information so that people can start these sort of topice and others can add to them. This would also help reduce repeated questions. I'll see what I can start and others can add and see if its of any use for them.
Rob
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Re: clutch judder

Postby Squiggle » Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:40 am

Rob_Jennings wrote:OK, I know its just one of those little things that makes it a moggy, but my clutch judder seems to be getting worse. Reverse has always been poor, but it is now getting quite pronounced in first too.

Any ideas on how to reduce this?

So far the things I can see that need obvious work are:

Engine mounts are very soft, so I have a pair to replace them, can you do this by carefully jacking under the block? will that give me enough clearance to swap them over or is it a much bigger job than that?

Engine steady bar rubbers very worn, so I'll renew those at the same time as above.

I have not checked the gear box steady cable or mounts, and I guess I should also look at the pedal pivot for worn bushes?

Should I be checking for play in the gearbox, drive shaft, diff? might it be an indication of rear springs getting soggy (they look pretty old and it is on my growing list of things I might do)?

I'd be grateful for any advice on the problem.

Cheers
When I start out the exhaust knocks on the underside of the car. I was told it was because it is the wrong exhaust for that car. It does the job as an exhaust system so haven't replaced it. But the knocking is quite loud.

It doesn't appear to be loose. The 'V' shape towards the tail of the pipe is horizontal rather than vertical in the bit of the underside that looks like it should accommodate it.

Thanks

Is this related to clutch judder?


1952 Series MM, 918cc sidevalve, 4 door saloon in Empire Green with a matching hotwater bottle
0-60 eventually


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