"Running on", unleaded and magic conversions...?

Post by **adrian5750** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:26 pm

Hi All

Sometimes my '64 Traveller is so "enthused" that she won't stop - even after the ignition has been turned off.
She chuggs on for up to ten seconds - before realising that she's been asked to stop...

Doesn't bother me particularly - but wondered whether this indicates that I should take some action / maintenance.

Car is fairly new to me - having been supplied to Ireland by a UK dealer. Before delivery the dealer fitted a 'System 4' catalyst in the fuel line - which they claim allows the car to run unleaded without any other modifications...

I mentioned this on another newsgroup and was told that such things are rubbish - and I stand a good chance of frying the valves...

So - any advice - experience - whatever ??

For what it's worth, the car isn't driven hard - but is used for everyday transport around the highways and byways of rural south-west Ireland...

Thanks for any advice
Adrian

Post by **minor_hickup** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:15 pm

First port of call is Carbon build up, Maybe a jolly good motorway run should help, is it running rich? Check the colour of the plugs as an indication, tanny beige is what youre after, black means rich. Ignition timing can affect running on also, I found my running on improved vastly after advancing the ignition until pinking and then backing off slightly. Advice the member BMCEcosse advised me to do and it resulted in better running all round.

However I always had slight running on after this, the only cure was removing the head and de-coking, which I had to do because of a broken exhaust valve. Although I always found a good long blast with a bit of redex in the tank helped things.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:33 pm

Yes - the inline fuel catalysts don't work.

I'd agree that carbon is a very likely cause, but hopefully a good service (including checking the timing to spec) will help.

Post by **alex_holden** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:51 pm

I hope the "dealer" didn't charge you for fitting this snake oil device.

Some say the unmodified A series engine can last for many miles on unleaded petrol before the exhaust valve seats recess as long as you're not doing a lot of long high-speed runs. Alternatively an FBHVC approved lead-replacement fuel additive should only add a few pence per litre of fuel.

Post by **bigginger** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:58 pm

Thirded re the whatsit. Junk, doesn't do anything useful.

Post by **Packedup** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:39 am

bigginger wrote:Thirded re the whatsit. Junk, doesn't do anything useful.

Oh yes they do!

They line the pockets of those who make and sell them...

Post by **bigginger** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:39 am

WHich is useful why?

Post by **chickenjohn** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:53 am

Yes agree with all the above- another possibillity, inlet manifold leaks weakening the mixture, creating hot spots, then the running on or "dieseling" as mechanics often call it.

Post by **adrian5750** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:10 am

Hi All

Many thanks for the fast responses - much appreciated.

Will take a look at the plugs and see what colour they're burning.

The dealer is a very well know, and well-established company in Bristol.
As part of the deal with this car they did a service which included a number of new parts, 'waxoyl' injection, and fitting this 'magic' fuel conditioner.

Quote from their website -
Unleaded device (System 4) - This system is a practical and affordable solution to running on unleaded fuel, which we have been using for many years without any problems and is well recommended.

Hmmm !

So the general opinion is that she'd probably be just as happy without ? - or maybe with the aid of an in-fuel additive ??

As to the 'quick blast up the motorway' - not really an option, beause of where we live. I'm not sure how far I'd need to go to get to anything approaching a motorway - probably a day's drive or so !
Roads over here don't generally encourage Morris speeds above about 50 - 55mph..... and we've been tending to 'cruise' rather than 'thrash' the old girl.

It is possible that I've been over-generous with the choke - will try reducing that and see if it makes any difference. Much of the day-to-day use for the car is simply nipping down into the village - round trip of not more than 8 miles - so maybe that's a contibutory factor.

Many thanks
Adrian

Post by **kennatt** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:24 am

different engine but the early mgbs had a serious problem with running on to the point that you had to engage gear and let the cluch out to stop it they eventually fitted a sort of bleeder sytem on the bulkhead attached to the inlet manifold when the engine was switched off it allowed air to be introduced to the induction side and the running on was eliminated. Any one with a serious running on broblem,could fit this sytem (IF YOU CAN FIND ONE)

Post by **paulhumphries** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:44 am

kennatt wrote:different engine but the early mgbs had a serious problem with running on to the point that you had to engage gear and let the cluch out to stop it they eventually fitted a sort of bleeder sytem on the bulkhead attached to the inlet manifold when the engine was switched off it allowed air to be introduced to the induction side and the running on was eliminated. Any one with a serious running on broblem,could fit this sytem (IF YOU CAN FIND ONE)

Some Metro models has them.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MG-METRO-ANTI-RUN ... dZViewItem
I've got one somewhere and intend using it as an antitheft device as it's virtually impossible to get the car to run even though ot might splutter when trying.

Paul Humphries

Post by **ColinP** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:29 am

The running-on is something I've had as well.

It's much less with one of the "premium" unleaded fuels (i.e the expensive ones), so it may be related to the fuel composition.

When the car had an original head, I used a fuel additive (lead replacement) - didn't seem to make any difference. Now the car's unleaded, maybe I should try one of the octane boosters?

My old Beetle had an electric solenoid valve fitted to the idle jet (i.e. anti-dieseling valve) - that was '68, so the problem's been around for a while, just that there are different ways of managing it - I tend to ignore it!

At least with the electric fuel pump it's nound to stop when the float chamber is empty. With a mechanical fuel pump you could be in problems... (first gear, handbrake on, lift clutch - oh yes anther post!)

Cheers,
Colin

Post by **dunketh** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:08 am

I've never suffered from this and I use unleaded fuel no problems.
It'll be something wrong somewhere rather than a symptom of using unleaded. Might even be as simple as timing or ignition settings.

As for those 'inline' things.. in my mind the Jury's still out. A mate runs them on his capris and I run an 'in tank' one in mine. Its basically a bag of tin or similar thats supposed to affect the molecules in the fuel.

I know its al load of balls but unless you drive them very hard valve seat recession doesnt seem to be a problem anyway.

Post by **picky** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:54 am

I seem to remember there was a goverment authorized study of lead replacement products run by the FBHVC a few years ago - strangely many of the companies selling their lead replacement gadgets failed to submit a sample for testing... wonder why

had running on problems with a 1098, I found that by pulling the choke out again at the end of a journey a few seconds before turning the ignition off, there was no running on. It also meant the choke was already out for when you try and start the car next time and forgot about the choke!

Picky

Post by **Kevin** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:33 pm

Hi Adrian as picky says none of those devices were submitted for testing because they dont work if you want to see the reccommended ones.
http://www.fbhvc.co.uk/
It was also found that valve seat ressesion on the `A` series engine only happens at constant speeds over 55mph and only then when the lead memory from the old fuel has gone which can last a long time.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:10 pm

Don't do that with the choke ! You are introducing super rich mixture which will wash away any protective oil on the rings and bores - leading to excessive wear when you next start up!! Better to use top grade fuel - you are only doing v few miles anyway, and indeed you may find the problem disappears by simply switching to a different brand of fuel. It is worth setting the ignition timing up to the 'pinking' limit, both for this and for general best running performance and economy. Even a change of spark plugs may solve the problem - or try the 'Redex' treatment, or some of the Mini lads advocate trickling some water into the intake while holding the engine at a good fast idle - this also takes away any excess carbon in the chambers.

Post by **alex_holden** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:10 pm

adrian5750 wrote:As part of the deal with this car they did a service which included a number of new parts, 'waxoyl' injection, and fitting this 'magic' fuel conditioner.

The Waxoyl is useful as long as they did it right.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:17 pm

If they think that daft 'catalyst' thing works - is there much hope for any of the rest of the work they have done ?

Post by **dunketh** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:35 pm

Theres always hope.
I find its like chance, there are a couple of common variants - neither of which will do you any good.