Lower trunnion removal

Post by **winger300** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:02 am

Is it possible to remove the kingpin and lower trunnion without removing the hub and brake drum first?

Does anyone have pictures of eyebolt, trunnion and rear shackle bushes? I have a box of assorted new bushes, but don't know which are for what.

Thanks

Post by **Alec** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 7:37 am

Hello Winger,
the lower trunnion can be removed without removing the drum or hub but be careful of the tension in the lower arm due to the spring. There is no king pin in the accepted sense so I don't understand what else you want to remove?

I can't help with a picture I'm afraid.

Alec

Post by **57traveller** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 1:02 pm

I would also be interested in the answer to winger's question re the difference between the bushes.
Some time ago I replaced all the front and rear suspension bushes (polyurethane) on my Traveller. I was underneath the car at the weekend, adjusting the clutch, and I noticed that part of the "flange" on the front right eyebolt bush has squeezed out from between the front link arm and eyebolt and has split.
The eyebolt bushes were ordered as such and supplied separately to the remainder which I already had. However they all looked exactly the same to me. I didn't mix them up so the supplied as eyebolt bushes definitely went into their intended location.
Everything was tightened up with weight of car on suspension as it should.

Post by **Cam** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 1:31 pm

I changed all mine to poly bushes from the Birmingham Minor centre. It squeaked like mad and used to creak a lot when moving off at low speeds. I also suffered with split eye-bolt bushes.

I found the problem was that the material used was far too hard, so after speaking to JLH about this he supplied me with softer (but harder than original) bushes which I fitted and after about 18 months have been fine. No squeaks or splits!

Post by **simmitc** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 1:35 pm

I guess terminology comes into it here. Generally the uproght unit that connects the top and bottom trunnions and carries the stub axle is referred to as the king pin. So, to answer the original question, yes you can remove the king pin complete with the bottom trunnion from the car without removing the brake drum. However, to remove the bottom trunnion from the king pin itself, I've always had to remove the brake back plate and therefore the drum, but not the hub - the back plate can flap around behind the hub once the four securing olts are out. If you don't remove the back plate then the trunnion can't rotate to unscrew from the king pin. Perhaps other people have a different style backplate that will allow the trunnion to move, but none of the four cars I currently have, or tohers that I have owned, would allow this - I'd be interested in how other people manage !

As to bushes, I used to keep eyebolt and rear spring hanger bushes separately, but many traders seem to supply eactly the same item for both, and so I now use just the one type. I've gone back to rubber (a better grade as supplied by Mark at Bull Motif) after finding that the "improved" poly bushes actually wore quicker and gave a harsher ride. Note that eyebolts and bushes do vary slightly, and some bushes might need trimming a (very) small amount on the thin end in order to sit properly in the eyebolt. Overlong bushes will split by the collar.

Post by **Alec** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 1:58 pm

Hello all,
I seem to have had a bit of brain fade here. I recently removed a lower trunnion, but completely overlooking that my wife's traveller has disc brakes.
As for removing the front upright well I suppose you can with the drum on but why would you want to as it makes the job much more akward and also means disconnecting the brake hose which is not normally necessary.
Incidentally my wife's traveller has poly bushes fitted, they haven't squeaked or visibly deteriorated in 5 years. The ones I fitted are from Chris Witor, a Triumph 2000 specialist who also imports the Australian made Superflex Bushes. I would certainly recommend them, I have used them for donkeys years in my Triumphs.

Alec

Post by **57traveller** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 2:54 pm

Thanks for replies. Glad

I'm not alone with the split bush "flange." I 'm sure the actual bushes are intact, there's no nasty noises when driving and no detectable free play in the eyebolt. Only one annoying thing - the left front suspension creaks, the right doesn't. All assembled the same way and with similar poly bushes. May take apart when the weather improves just to have a look, at least it will all come apart easily enough

. Might even revert back to rubber - no problems there.

With regards to brakes and hubs, for what's involved and to make access and things easier I'd personally remove them. You can clean and grease the hub bearings at the same time

.

Post by **winger300** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 3:44 pm

yeah, thanks for the replies.

I was thinking of getting poly bushes, but since i already have some rubber ones i may as well use those. The reason i didn't want to remove the hub is because i dont have a large enough socket for the nut. Perhaps i should get one of these first.

Post by **57traveller** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 3:49 pm

Picture of two types of bushes.

Left one is for top trunnions, they are imperial size but metric dimensions are 19mm long, large (flange) dia. 33mm, small dia. 28mm, note taper.
Right one is for rear springs, 25mm long, 25mm large (flange) dia., 22mm small dia. parallel. This bush also fits into eyebolt and is correct for length as well BUT don't know if it's intended to fit there!?

Post by **Cam** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 3:51 pm

Left one is the top trunnion bush, right one is the eyebolt? or the shackle bush? or one of the ones that the supplier use for both?

Post by **57traveller** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 3:57 pm

Oops, you posted just as I was editing Cam, couldn't remember wich was on left or right of picture.

Post by **57traveller** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 4:02 pm

I suspect that the width of the flange is too big for eyebolt fitment - in spite of this bush being supplied as correct for eyebolt, in addition to rear spring shackles etc. When the two halves of the suspension arm are tightened there seems to be too much "squash" (yes another technical term) which would accelerate the splitting tendency. Just my theory anyway.

Might be wise to get a socket anyway winger - those hubs will have to come off sometime anyway.

Post by **Cam** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 4:04 pm

That does make sense as I seem to remember them not going home all the way when I fitted my last ones, which as you say would make them prone to splitting, but my new ones are OK, it's just the old ones that were too hard which accelerated the splitting.

Post by **57traveller** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 4:10 pm

I've tried these bushes in a spare eyebolt Cam and two will go in fine (one each side) and are o.k. lengthwise it's just the width of that flange sticking out each side that seems a bit odd to me. Or maybe I tightened up too much when assembling! They are o.k. in the rear suspension - no splitting etc.
I'll post a pic of the assembly - eyebolt, lower arms etc. anyway now the cameras in action!

Post by **Cam** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 4:24 pm

Here is a pic of my new eyebolt with the JLH ones fitted. They fit fine. Actually I meant to say that my Birmingham ones stuck out but my JLH ones were OK (as you can see in the piccy):

Post by **57traveller** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 4:37 pm

Could be an illusion but they don't look as though they're protruding as much as these. i.e. the flange is not as thick. The nut concealed inside the arm is only just on the pin by a couple of threads with the other just flush with the end of the pin. I can't remember what the bushes were like that I fitted. I think the flanges were quite thick though.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 4:41 pm

crumbs - well I guess it's all been said anway...
I have used black 'rubber' bushes from Birmingham minor centre. Generally they are too long for the eyeybolt (checked the length and they were longer than the male part) so i cut them down. In the past I didn't cut them down so the flange got very squashed and split - then they had worn through in a couple of years anyway...

The one's from Bull might be a lot better, although Im have no idea which I used on 1 side of Riley a few years ago. I had a load spare as I bought some for rear springs but didn't use them. If I'd been doing both sides of Riley I woul have converted to soft poly bushes - they might wear quickly, but I don't think they can wear as fast as the rubbish black ones that B'ham sold to me.

Post by **57traveller** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 4:55 pm

Looks to be enormous inconsistencies in dimensions and quality here Ray with these bushes.
Pity we can't get the old original MOWOG rubber items, bet they lasted for years.

Post by **Kevin** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:57 pm

Obviously the problem must be down to the different types apart from the yellow ones that Cam shows which seem to be fine and fit as well as the ones I used which were purplely/blue in colour I have also seen red ones, what colour were the ones that dont seem to have lasted.

I've always had to remove the brake back plate and therefore the drum, but not the hub - the back plate can flap around behind the hub once the four securing olts are out. If you don't remove the back plate then the trunnion can't rotate to unscrew from the king pin.

I have also found this, so I am with Simmitc on this point.

Post by **Cam** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 1:33 pm

My first lot that broke up and I replaced were red.

Quote:

I've always had to remove the brake back plate and therefore the drum, but not the hub - the back plate can flap around behind the hub once the four securing olts are out. If you don't remove the back plate then the trunnion can't rotate to unscrew from the king pin.

I have also found this, so I am with Simmitc on this point.

I also found this, even with my Ford disc brake conversion: