Starting problem - please help

[tunnyx]

Hi all - My 17 year old son has sorted out the master cylinder and has given the car a full service but we're now unable to start the car.

The engine turns over freely on the starter and battery is strong. It sounds like its starting, and there's action from the exhaust but it won't fire up once we release the starter. Choke fully out (also tried it in) but neither seems to make any difference.

I've checked the plugs and all are sparking fine. I've checked the fuel pump and fuel is getting through fine.

What is the next best thing to check? How would I test the carb? Seems very odd as it fired up perfectly before Jack had done his service..

Any ideas welcomed. Thanks

Mark

[Tom and Maria]

Next thing to check is whether fuel is getting from the float bowl in the carb to the jet. It may be that the valve is stuck or full of dirt.

An egg cup of petrol down the mouth of the carb (air filter removed) should cause the engine to spring to life if the carb is at fault.

Have you touched the timing at all? Have you removed anything which could cause an air leak in the fuel system; manifold or carb?

Itll be something simple.

Tom

[mike.perry]

Has the distributor been moved?
Have the points been replaced?
Have you checked the plugs and points gaps?
Are the points and all the plugs sparking?
Is the carbon brush in the dizzy cap springing out?
Are the connections to the coil and dizzy secure?

[tunnyx]

thanks chaps, I'll check all those out tomorrow and let you know what we find

Mark & Jack

[GeoffC]

Is the firing order right? It should be 1-3-4-2 going anti clockwise when viewed from the top. If the distributor is fitted correctly, No 1 plug lead on the distributor should be nearest to No 1 plug.

[bmcecosse]

As the lads above are suggesting - if it was working before, and now it's not working after the 'service' - what exactly was done ???

[tunnyx]

lol, just bear in mind this is a 17 year old servicing a car for the first time - he promises he didnt move anything.......

[bmcecosse]

Aye right - so what did the 'service' consist of? Oil change? Filter change? (And if so - has it been fitted correctly). Valve gaps? Spark plugs been out? Points been 'adjusted'?? We need to know !

[izzi]

Hi Mark,

I think if your son sorted out the brakes, then he must be trusted.

I would give him the keys and let him find out what he did wrong himself,then let him put it right.

He must learn by his mistake's. ( maby leave bmcecosse's contact around for your son to find).

Good luck.

Roy.

[tunnyx]

Righty ho : havent had time to do everything on the list but here goes:

1/2 egg cup of fuel down the carb's throat did nothing - same as before. As far as Jack and I are concerned there's been no change in the timing as we havent 'stripped' the engine in any way whatsoever (haven't even had the rocker cover off).

Dizzy hasnt been taken off, but I've now taken off and checked over. points are as clean as a whistle (looks virtually new in there).

Not sure what to look for ref the carbon brush in the dizzy cap. Can you explain further? (pics always appreciated)

Connection of the coil/dizzy fine. All spark plugs sparking away when tested so I'm fairly happy theres no problem with the gaps, dizzy etc.

In terms of a service, we drained the engine oil, removed the radiator (as we were replacing all the pipes), replaced all pipes and refitted radiator and re-filled with oil. Sump plug back on securely. We changed the spark plugs also, but have since put the old ones back on just in case we had some form of fault in the new ones (but to no avail).

We've not yet changed the air filter but I've tried it with/without the filter fitted and it makes no difference to the starting problem.

A lot of what I say is based on my son's feedback of what he's done/not done, although he's usually pretty honest about these things and as we're just trying to get it running again it doesn't seem likely that he's holding anything from me.

On that basis, is it worth me getting a compression tester and giving that a check? Would a seriously out of balance fuel/air mix cause no starting at all (I'd expect it to start, albeit roughly/cutting out/over revving etc). Is there any technique for testing the fuel/air mix?

Cheers for you help so far fellas, much appreciated.

Also, whilst I'm asking, although fuel is pumping through, the fuel pump doesnt appear to be earthed (unless via the body). The only connection is a wire attached to a screwthread on the end of the bakelite end of the pump. No wire on the 'earth' terminal at all, though its obviously attached via screws to the battery plate. Like I say, its pumping fuel through seemingly fine (2 seconds of 'starter' managed to pump enough through the pipes to fill an eggcup).

Cheers again

Mark & Jack

[bmcecosse]

Likely the spark plug leads are on wrong order. 1342 anti-clock around the dizzy.

[tunnyx]

Cheers, but i've double and treble checked them & they're fine as far as I can see.

[mike.perry]

Inside the top of the dizzy cap there is a carbon brush which rubs on the top of the rotor arm, if you push it in it should spring out again.
Lift the carb piston with your finger and it should drop onto the bridge with a clunk
The fuel pump earths through the body
The symptoms still seem like the plug leads are in the wrong order

[whyperion]

Re check the wires to the coil and the the coil to distributor connection that they are firm and secure, confirm firing order.

Try a quick bit of easy start down the air filter inlet , ( assuming plug order correct ) if it now fires the petrol may be a bit old
from standing around ( this was my sons cars problem )

[David53]

It really shouldnt be this hard! There must be something very basically and fundamentally wrong. If you've got sparks at the plugs, and petrol in the carby the damn thing should at least kick! Even if the plugs are in the wrong order you would still at least get it to cough. Have you had all the plugs out one by one with HT lead attached and watched for a spark? Have to admit am baffled but look forward to hearing what the problem was when you track it down!

[kennatt]

is it possible to post a photo showing the dizzy with leads attached and that side of the engine to eliminate wrong order,not that we doubt you but just to eliminate the possibility.

[tunnyx]

No problems, I've taken a couple of pics of the engine bay - let me know if you spot anything obvious or to investigate[frame][/frame]

[tunnyx]

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[tunnyx]

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[David53]

That number one lead looks awfully stretched! Maybe the order is wring, hard to tell from the pic. And no air filter? Was it taken off just for the pics?