Front Wheel Bearing Play

[jagnut66]

Hi,
Just wondered how much play is acceptable on the front wheel bearings? I have a bit of wobble on my front wheels (when the car was jacked up for me to check them today).
I would normally just re-tighten the nut on the bearing until there is no play at all, renew the split pin and re-grease them but I am wondering if you can over tighten the nut on the bearings, as the drivers side needs doing two or three times a year (so I am thinking that may need renewing at some point anyway), however I now have play on the passenger side for the first time as well and I just wanted to check before I proceed.
Many thanks.
Mike.

[bmcecosse]

Something seriously wrong there - the hub nuts DO NOT get 'tightened' up to take up wear..... The bearings are assembled and the nut torqued up - and that's it. There is a steel spacer between the bearings - it can't get loose unless there is a problem. Strip and investigate - there must be NO 'play' - and the wheel must spin round freely assuming the brakes don't rub of course.

[beero]

Don't normaly disagree with BMCecosse BUT I have had new bearings and still have very slight play in one side but just passed the MOT without an advisory. For the price of new bearings renew anyway.

[bmcecosse]

There should not be ANY discernible play - but the MOT guy uses his judgement.

[Bazzalucas]

I seem to have the infamous aftermarket bearing play in my hubs. Is there a consensus on how much to take off of the spacer to snug things up?

[bmcecosse]

Very little - 1 or 2 thou should do it.

[jagnut66]

I've been reading through this and the mention of a spacer made me ponder....
Needless to say these are the aforementioned troublesome new replacement / aftermarket bearings that you were talking about, I have a disc brake conversion on the front.
Anyway, these have never truly sat snugly and seemed to loosen up quite quickly, as I stated in my original post, so I sat down, popped the cap off to have another look and had a think.
Two things occurred to me, the first was obvious and had bothered me from the start, the split pin, which should keep the castellated nut in place, had always struck me as too small for the job, despite this when replacing in the past I'd stuck to the same size............. time for a couple of bigger ones from my parts bin.
Secondly, fit another spacer, so that said nut will sit over the retaining hole properly when tightened up.
Finding one big enough to fit over the thread but not so big as it wouldn't sit in place then took a while but a friend of a friend came to the rescue with some large washers from the JCB parts bin.....
One fitted on each side, nut back in place and tightened up, new larger slit pins sitting snugly in the hole (and hopefully keeping the nut in place this time!!), no play, result!
Now to use her for a while and recheck, time will tell whether this 'solution' works......
(Still driving her round Milton Keynes at present, so she still has to contend with their obsession for roundabouts and sleeping policemen! We shall have to see whether she likes Mansfield better.....)
Best wishes,
Mike.

[philthehill]

In your original post you do not mention that you have fitted Disc Brakes so you will not have Minor front wheel bearings fitted in the front hubs. Bmc is therefore right in that there should be no play whatsoever when using original spec Minor front wheel bearings in Minor front hubs. I do not know what disc brake conversion is fitted to your car but if it is a Marina conversion there should be a little discernible play when rocking the front wheel when the wheel is off the ground.
And yes you can over tighten taper roller bearings which will accelerate wear!
When I fitted Marina brakes to the front of my Minor I also had to fit extra spacers behind the nut. I just used spare Minor hub nut washers to bring the castellation in line with the hole in the stub axle. Always use the largest split pin that will go through the hole in the stub axle or when fitting a split pin anywhere else.

[jagnut66]

I do not know what disc brake conversion is fitted to your car

Ford vented disc conversion, sorry, you're right, I should have mentioned this.
Interesting to note that you had to fit extra spacers too though.

[philthehill]

The Marina conversion was from Grumpys when he was at Oxford and there were some extra spacing washers in the kit to take up the difference but I preferred to use spare Minor hub nut washers as they were a better fit.
I would hazard a guess and say that the bearings in your disc brake conversion are taper and if they are there should be slight discernible play at the wheel when the wheel is raised off the ground.

[Bazzalucas]

I am sorry to dig up an old thread, but I thought I'd report on the condition of play in my front wheel bearings. I had 2 thou taken off the spacers and bolted everything back up tight, but still have a bit of play in the hubs. Has anyone else needed to take off more from the spacers, or is there another reason things aren't snug?

[philthehill]

If you have the original type bearings (inner Pt No: 157732 or GHB129) (the spacer Pt No: 127919 or 88G321) (outer bearing Pt No: 6K803 or GBH128) (bearings/spacer changed from car No: 228267) fitted there should be NO play in the wheel bearings when assembled.
I would suggest that the bearing races are worn (any roughness when the hub is tuned when assembled?).
Having reduced the overall length of the spacer even by a few thou will not do any new bearings any good at all as you will end up over pre-loading the new bearings when assembled and which will lead to rapid wear.

[Bazzalucas]

Hmmm. The hubs turn smoothly with no noise or roughness, but there is definite play. I can watch the movement from underneath and inside, and the movement is of the hub on the stub axle. It is not much, and turning down the spacer reduced the play.

[philthehill]

Are the outer ball races tight in the hub?
I have known for the outer races to turn and wear the hub causing free play!

[Bazzalucas]

All of the outer races appeared to have the proper fit to the hub: a snug fit but could be easily tapped out with a drift. Perhaps the bearings are just worn, although the contact faces of the races look great. I am considering going to tapered roller bearings. Is the jury still out regarding stub axle strength in switching to this setup?

[Biggles1957]

When I changed my front bearings I tried two lots of new ones and in the end had to do as BMC suggests and tickle a couple of thou off the original spacers to achieve the correct fit. I reckon the new bearings aren't made to the proper tolerance - they're probably some foreign size like metric!

[Bazzalucas]

Yeah, this "metric" fad won't last. People will get fed up with these sloppy tolerances and go back to good ol' inches, like we have in the 'States.

[bmcecosse]

Minor front wheel bearings ARE 'metric' - I have no idea why.....

[Pucketsport]

I have just replaced my front wheel bearings with the "premium" brand offered by Moss. I also have some slight movement in the hub. The recommendation from BMC to remove some material from the spacer kind of makes sense but its a hit or miss if too much material is removed. Has anyone tried shimming the spacer out to "load" the bearings in the other direction ?
By nature of its design it lends itself to issues with tolerance stacking which is why modern bearings are pre-assembled at the bearing supplier ( Inner and outer race supplied as one unit).

[philthehill]

If you are going to use shims they should be placed between the bearing outer race inner face and the hub.
Fitting shims to the spacer will only make matters worse.
The correct way of course is to fit genuine NOS BMC bearings if you can find them otherwise a skim taken off the spacer will suffice.

If you have bearing movement in the hub the hub should be replaced.