alloy or copper rad?

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julie4morris
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alloy or copper rad?

Postby julie4morris » Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:11 pm

The radiator on my traveller is starting to look a tad shabby to say the least and I’m looking to replace it. I have seen a few alloy radiators pop up on my searches on the interweb and EBay but was wondering if anyone had first had experience with one? If so where is a good place to pick one up/ who would you recommend to buying one from?[frame]Image[/frame]

samuria
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Re: alloy or copper rad?

Postby samuria » Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:23 pm

a lot of alloy rads tend to have plastic tanks...which i find are u/s
you could get yours recored at a radiator repair shop...
or look on any of the morris minor suppliers
online stores around £100 + each :roll:

JOWETTJAVELIN
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Re: alloy or copper rad?

Postby JOWETTJAVELIN » Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:43 pm

If you have it recored it will probably cost around £80 and the turnaround is only a few days. This is what I'd do.
Image

julie4morris
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Re: alloy or copper rad?

Postby julie4morris » Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:36 am

Well i was looking at a few on ebay like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ALUMINUM-ALLO ... 4897.l4276 and they don't seem to have a plastic tank, also my thinking was that a alloy rad would displace a bit more heat so when I upgrade to a tuned 1275 engine it will help keep things cool.

philthehill
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Re: alloy or copper rad?

Postby philthehill » Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:50 am

So long as the standard Minor radiator and cooling system is in good condition it will easily cope with a tuned 1275cc as seen in the attached photo which is of my Minor when fitted with a tuned 1275cc bored out to 1400cc.[frame]Image[/frame]


julie4morris
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Re: alloy or copper rad?

Postby julie4morris » Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:21 pm

Ok thanks copper it is then. hell i bet that old girl go's fairly what is the box mounted where the battery box was?

philthehill
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Re: alloy or copper rad?

Postby philthehill » Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:28 pm

The box is the oil catch tank. If your engine is breathing heavily it is supposed to catch the oil and not allow it to go onto the road/track surface. A standard requirement for all vehicles used in competition.
That was my old engine it goes even better now.


Birnie93968
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Re: alloy or copper rad?

Postby Birnie93968 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:07 am

Hi guys,

I have bought an aluminium radiator for my Mog.

Upon arrival I have found I have an extra spigot attached in the bottom right corner (opposite the drainage plug)

Could anyone tell me what this is actually for?

After ringing the boys at Charles Wares I’m under the impression it is something for an older model minor.
I’m just hoping I can bypass this random plug with the appropriate bolt as the rad is a thing of beauty!!

Thanks in advance and sorry for hojacking someone’s post to ask this, I’ve just joined the site and I’m not too familiar yet!

philthehill
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Re: alloy or copper rad?

Postby philthehill » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:15 am

Welcome to the world of Morris Minors.

Looking at pictures of Morris Minor alloy radiators it is the spigot boss for the heater return pipe which was the style on earlier models.
Just blank the hole with the appropriate bolt or use an original blanking plug https://www.morrisminorspares.com/cooli ... 8-p1238283
The threads do need to be checked for type as the threads may now be metric instead of imperial.
If the bolts are tight to screw in do not force them in please come back on here for advice.

A picture of your alloy radiator, both unfitted and fitted would be appreciated and a link to the supplier.

Phil


Birnie93968
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Re: alloy or copper rad?

Postby Birnie93968 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:40 am

Thank you Phil!

That has answered my query perfectly and brought me peace of mind!

I will post a picture as soon as I get a minute and also once I have got round to fitting it.
I have a bit of repair work to do to the chassis first so this may take a couple of weeks but I will post pictures of my progress.

I appreciate the warm welcome and am thankful to have like minded moggy owners at my disposal for some sound advice!

Thanks again!

Watch this space!

Birnie!

geoberni
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Re: alloy or copper rad?

Postby geoberni » Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:11 pm

Just to illustrate the layout Phil described, here's an online image of the early layout.
My SII has been fitted with a 948cc and the heater hose layout is just like this one .
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/23/b9/5b ... 54760d.jpg
Basil the 1955 series II

Image

IslipMinor
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Re: alloy or copper rad?

Postby IslipMinor » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:23 am

Our hose arrangement is exactly the same as the link above.
IMG_1694a.JPG
IMG_1694a.JPG (984.22 KiB) Viewed 254 times
When did the 'push/pull' heater temperature valve come in? ~1962? Is this the same point when the return from the heater was re-routed from the bottom of the radiator into the top of the bottom hose?

When I fitted the 1380 engine during the restoration 20+ years ago, I came across a 'heavy duty' Minor radiator with either 1 or 2 additional rows in the core and that worked very well, even in high southern European summer temperatures, until age got the better of after ~10 years.

I took the whole radiator to A1 Radiators in Banbury (they are the nearest specialist to where we live), and they fitted a new 'modern', 'high density' core, a shorter outlet to the top tank (with an 1800 engine thermostat housing, a standard top hose is used with a 1275 engine) and a new neck to the top tank, so that the later more commonly available 'short stemmed' radiator cap can be fitted.

I do not remember the total cost, but I am pretty sure it was less than £100 at the time.

The appearance is completely 'original' - the eagle-eyed will spot the non-Minor thermostat housing! The thermostat is 82° and the front mounted electric fan cuts in at ~88/89°C, so even in stationary traffic there is plenty of cooling 'headroom' before the boiling point of 118°C with a 13lb cap.

I do keep a water pump mounted fan blade in the boot, just in case of thermo switch or electric fan failure - it happened the first time we went to France with barely 1,000 miles on the clock after the complete restoration in 1998, and with temperatures in the very high 30's °C. I was very happy to be able to just fit the fan blade and carry on with the trip, but the noise of it at high revs was something else though!
Last edited by IslipMinor on Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Richard



ManyMinors
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Re: alloy or copper rad?

Postby ManyMinors » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:34 am

IslipMinor wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:23 am
Our hose arrangement is exactly the same as the link above. When did the 'push/pull' heater temperature valve come in? ~1962? Is this the same point when the return from the heater was re-routed from the bottom of the radiator into the top of the bottom hose?
I reckon the heater push/pull valve came in with the revised dashboard and toggle switches in late 1964?

The heater take-off from the bottom hose, along with the copper pipe, was a few years earlier - around 1959 I think.

philthehill
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Re: alloy or copper rad?

Postby philthehill » Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:49 pm

According to the MOSS parts list the cable operated heater valve was fitted from 1098cc car No: 1039564.


geoberni
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Re: alloy or copper rad?

Postby geoberni » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:21 pm

ManyMinors wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:34 am
IslipMinor wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:23 am
Our hose arrangement is exactly the same as the link above. When did the 'push/pull' heater temperature valve come in? ~1962? Is this the same point when the return from the heater was re-routed from the bottom of the radiator into the top of the bottom hose?
I reckon the heater push/pull valve came in with the revised dashboard and toggle switches in late 1964?

The heater take-off from the bottom hose, along with the copper pipe, was a few years earlier - around 1959 I think.

But if that's the case, how come IslipMinors has got a car with the earlier radiator heater hose arrangement, yet has an elephant trunk hose too???? :-?
I thought the elephant trunk was in the 60s, given how many cars you see without one... :-?

All very confusing the mix and match of bits that you see... :D :D
Basil the 1955 series II

Image

IslipMinor
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Re: alloy or copper rad?

Postby IslipMinor » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:38 pm

All very confusing the mix and match of bits that you see
The car is November 1958, hence the heater hose arrangement, and according to the receipts that came with it when my mother bought it when it was 6 years old, the original 'round' recirculating heater was fitted by the supplying dealer in 1960.

I fitted the later 'fresh air' heater in around 1970, when it was used as my wife's daily drive and we needed a heater that 'worked'! I prefer the expression 'improvement or upgrade' to 'mix and match'!! Not sensitive of course.
Richard



geoberni
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Re: alloy or copper rad?

Postby geoberni » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:53 pm

IslipMinor wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:38 pm
All very confusing the mix and match of bits that you see
The car is November 1958, hence the heater hose arrangement, and according to the receipts that came with it when my mother bought it when it was 6 years old, the original 'round' recirculating heater was fitted by the supplying dealer in 1960.

I fitted the later 'fresh air' heater in around 1970, when it was used as my wife's daily drive and we needed a heater that 'worked'! I prefer the expression 'improvement or upgrade' to 'mix and match'!! Not sensitive of course.
:lol: I was commenting 'mix and match' about Minors in general, not your particular configuration. :)
Thanks for clearing it up though, I was confused by the arrangement.
Basil the 1955 series II

Image

philthehill
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Re: alloy or copper rad?

Postby philthehill » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:03 pm

Richard
Looking at your photo of the 21st August the heater tap arrangement looks as bit unusual in that the hose from the tap goes via the heated manifold to the bottom hose. The hose to the heater appears to come off a boss under the heater tap.
Am I right in thinking that the tap is to regulate the flow of hot water through the inlet manifold and that you have a separate heater control tap somewhere between the head and the heater element.

Phil


IslipMinor
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Re: alloy or copper rad?

Postby IslipMinor » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:26 pm

Phil,

The flow through the heater is 'always on'. 2 reasons - 1 to get the heat away from the back of the head, and 2 to get the maximum flow through the heater element, thus hopefully 'warmth' out! The heater case has been fitted with a 'late' type classic Mini core that is claimed to be 'uprated' (I like that word!), and uses 5/8" bore hoses for flow and return. Passing the flow through the screw valve would potentially restrict it, so it is 5/8" hose up to the heater, down from the heater to the MG Metro water-cooled oil cooler, and from the cooler to the original fitting in the bottom of the radiator.

The heater valve is usually left open to help with cold running, and of course on track days it is closed to keep the manifold 'cooler', and hence more dense air/fuel charge and more power! Yes, OK, maybe a millionth of a horsepower??? The alloy manifold gets hot through conduction from head and it sits quite close to a very hot exhaust, so in reality it stays open all the time. Why leave it 'in circuit'? It was there from 1960, when the first heater was fitted, so I think it should stay there.

If I could source a 'full-flow' 5/8"/16mm in-line control valve and a way of controlling it (manually or electrically), that would be great, as then we could have a flow of cooler air, as well as warmer. Has anyone any ideas where I might get such an arrangement? This might get a bit complicated, as if the flow from the back of the head is stopped, so is the flow through the oil cooler - time for a re-think!
Richard



philthehill
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Re: alloy or copper rad?

Postby philthehill » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:27 pm

Richard
Many thanks for the explanation.

It appears that the MG Metro oil/cooler intercooler Modine Pt No: 3,743,011 is also fitted to the Renault Grand Scenic 2, Megan11 2 Scenic 1.9 DCI. S/H units can be purchased off 'e' bay. The adapter bolt can be made up by using two Mocol adapters joined together with one of the hexagons turned or ground off. The early heavy duty MG Midget or Metro spin on/off filter head must be used as combined weight of oil intercooler and oil filter is too much for the later lightweight filter spin on/off filter head.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Engine-Oil-C ... SwZdZdIE0h

The seal between intercooler and filter head should be available from a Renault main dealer.

To confirm that the MG and Renault intercoolers are the same I have ordered a S/H Renault intercooler to compare with the two MG items I already have. I will post on here my findings.

Phil



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