Heavy clutch

[54woody]

Finally got my car all back together after doing a major upgrade - 1275 midget engine, HS-4 carb, 5 speed Ford gearbox. Took it out for it's maiden voyage this afternoon and I've found a couple of more issues to sort out. There's a problem with the throttle that I posted in a separate thread.

The second issue is that the clutch is quite heavy. As stated, woody is now fitted with a 1275 Midget engine and clutch and I've kept the normal mechanical linkage. The clutch works just fine, but it's a bit more of a workout for my left leg than I remember the old 948/smooth-case being. I recall reading that this is 'normal' with the 1275 clutch but that it's possible to modify the linkage somehow to, I guess, increase the leverage so the clutch is not so heavy to operate. I didn't quite understand what was being described though. If anyone has done this modification, could you kindly explain what's involved, in simple words? Many thanks.

[tysonn]

I tried this on my convertible with the same engine and clutch.Basically you weld on a short length of steel bar to extend the leverage on the clutch lever,if you search the forum there's plenty of info about it.The result for me at least was disappointing.Changing to a standard moggy clutch and all the necessary other bits resulted in a feather light clutch action.A pleasure to use!
Mick

[philthehill]

Convert to a hydraulic clutch same as the Midget/Sprite and you will find that the clutch will be a lot lighter.
Your convertor bell housing should have the two holes or the two bosses (with undrilled/tapped holes) for mounting the hydraulic slave cylinder.
Attached are two diagrams from the Owen Burton Marina to Minor Booklet that might be of help which ever way you go and which may be what tysonn is referring too.[frame][/frame][frame][/frame]
I fitted a hydraulic clutch conversion to my Minor fitted with a Ford gearbox and Midget clutch and it works well.
Whilst the conversion kit is available from ESM (Pt No: COM800) I made up my own kit from parts I had which are the same as those in the kit with a flexible hose between the slave cylinder and the chassis member. I mounted the clutch hydraulic master cylinder on the gearbox cross member and it is ideally positioned there.

[tysonn]

Yes Phil thats the bit I welded on.Still on there but not being used now.

[54woody]

Mick, you're saying this mod didn't make any significant difference to the feel of your clutch? What clutch did you end up using if not the 1275 Midget clutch?

Phil, thanks for that info. The drawing helps me understand what the mod is talking about.

I looked at the hydraulic clutch kit but ESM says it's for the 1098 gearbox only. What looks like the same kit on the Moss website specifically says that it's not for 5 speed conversions. Is this the kit that you used with a Ford 5 speed conversion? You say you mounted part on the gearbox cross member? Do you have any photos of the installation? I'm not completely adverse to using a hydraulic clutch but I didn't really want the fluid resivoir I the engine bay. Funny as it sounds given the mods to the car, I like to keep it looking as original as I can.

[IslipMinor]

I have the Toyota T50 5-spd with a standard 1275 diaphragm clutch pressure plate and standard Minor mechanical linkage.

It's not feather light like a 'modern', but I don't find it any problem, including in slow moving traffic. Is it a question of getting more used to it?

[philthehill]

When I did my conversion there was only the 4 speed conversion available from CS Autoclassics and no hydraulic conversion kit so had to develop my own. The gearbox adapter Ford/Minor bell housing and the Ford 1st motion shaft are the same so the principle details will be similar.
I used a Midget/Sprite 1275cc clutch release arm adapted so it pressed against the rear of the Ford concentric release bearing which was mounted on a modified carrier. Unfortunately I did not take any photos of the linkage inside the bell housing.
These are the photos of the external mechanism.[frame][/frame][frame][/frame][frame][/frame]
Inside the bell housing is a bracket (photo attached) which the release arm pivots on.
I am not sure how the ESM/MOSS linkage fits inside the Ford/Minor bell housing but the parts that make up the hydraulic conversion kit are the same as used by myself.
I have the clutch fluid reservoir under the bonnet and it is not conspicuous.[frame][/frame]

[54woody]

Phil, your diagram shows extending the arm of the linkage mechanism by 5/8". I was going through some old threads and I found a post by Mike Perry where he said...

The solution is to lengthen the arm on the relay shaft that connects to the pedal linkage by 1 inch and redrill the hole accordingly. This will give the weight and travel of a 1098 clutch.

Seems like 1" would give a bigger increase in leverage. Perhaps that's what I'll try. It'd be a whole lot less expensive than going to a hydraulic clutch.

[philthehill]

By all means try extending the lever by 1" and see how it works out and please let us know how you get on.
I would recommend that you replace the standard relay shaft rubber bush (Pt No: COM110) with at least a harder Poly Bush.
I fitted a hard nylon bush supplied by Minor Mania when I uprated my clutch and which worked very well.
Because my clutch is far from standard I went the whole hog and eventually fitted the modified hydraulic system and yes it is expensive to install.

[geevee]

Which clutch master cylinder is this and where can I get one?
I mounted a similar one from Owen Burton in 1997 but now it needs to be replaced.

[bmcecosse]

Are there no ID marks/part numbers on your cylinder?

[philthehill]

The remote 5/8" ID master cylinder is available from Merlin Motorsport http://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk product code No; 64067651.
There is the option of either a 11/16" ID, 3/4" ID and 7/8" ID master cylinder if you want to adjust the pedal pressure.
Service kits for the various master cylinders are also available from Merlin Motorsport.

[geevee]

Phil, thank you very much!

[mike.perry]

I run a Traveller with a 1275 Midget engine and gearbox and diaphram clutch. With this set up and normal linkage the clutch pedal movement is very sharp and heavy, OK for race tracks but no good for rush hour commuting. The solution is to extend the arm on the relay lever which connects to the pedal by 1 in. and redrill the hole accordingly. This will restore normal clutch pedal effort and travel. For additional refinement you can fit a roller thrust bearing.

[tysonn]

Hmm that's what I did to mine and still found it too heavy to be enjoyable.Hence ending up changing to the standard clutch and associated bits.Light as a feather after that.

[mike.perry]

You can extend the arm by a little more than an inch but be careful not to go too far as you will run out of pedal movement and end up with clutch drag and no adjustment. A little goes a long way.

[Nickol]

As an aside, to save me opening a new thread. It was mentioned that the B&B clutch is now Made in China and is not worth a spit......
what do the "panel" then recommend to buy and from whom ? For me it would be a standard fitting for 1098 engined TRaveller.

[mike.perry]

I bought a segmented 918/803/948 clutch plate a couple of years ago and found that the rivets were loose enabling the drive plates to move on the rivets

[54woody]

Just to bring this thread to a conclusion...I bought an extra clutch relay shaft and had a friend extend the arm on the pedal side by an inch. I installed the new shaft, took the car out for a ride today, and I'm pleased to report back that it works a treat and has restored the feel of the clutch pedal back to how it was with the old type clutch, just as Mike Perry suggested it would.

Modified relay shaft on the left, standard one on the right.[frame][/frame]


Standard relay shaft in the LHD car.[frame][/frame]

Modified relay shaft in the LHD car.[frame][/frame]

[bmcecosse]

Great pictures - well done. Sticks down a bit though! Need to take care it doesn't catch on anything ...... I wonder if a better option may be to shorten the other lever...