Servo plumbing

Post by **martylemoo** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 1:13 pm

Hi People,
Sorry for all the posts, just taking advantage of the time off to get some work on the car done. I have just mounted the servo and disk brakes on the car and i am now going to plumb them in. Just looking for some advice on the most efficient way to do this. I was thinking one outlet from the M/C to the servo. Then from the servo to a switched 3 piece adaptor taking pipes to the two front discs and off to the rear brakes. Does this sound ok?
cheers
Martyn

Post by **bigginger** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 7:23 pm

Since no one seems to be replying, I'll risk my neck (well, yours really...) Yup, M/C to servo, servo to 3 way union, one pipe of which goes to 3 way for the fronts and 1 to rears. Just route the pipes as neatly and securely as poss. - things can get pretty crowded down by the pedal shaft.
What's a switched 3 way? Oh, it's just occured to me you mean the B/L switch. 'Doh! I try to keep the switch as near as possible to the servo, where it's a lot more accessible than the standard location.

a

Post by **Cam** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 8:54 pm

So........ what are you going to do with the pipe that runs rearward from the M/C that normally supplies the rear brakes?? If you fit the 3-way adapter then you will have a servo'd and non-servo'd feed running to the rear brakes!

Some people just servo the front brakes which makes life much easier........ and some people (like me) don't bother with a servo at all as it does not increase your braking performance at all, it just makes the pedal easier to press.

Post by **bigginger** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 9:17 pm

Eh? M/C to servo. servo to 3 way (inc Brake light swiitch). That's one input used. 2nd feeds front brakes, via 3 way as normal (I didn't mention that, thought it was enough to say feeds front brakes). 3rd feeds rears (via 3 way on the rear axle). I'm pretty sure that's right, it means you have the M/C to servo pipe and the (servoed) feed to the rears running through the space by the pedal shaft, which is why it's a bit crowded, assuming one has the servo in the bay.I hope I'm not just remembering wrong. Aha! Did the rear feed originally come from the back of the M/C? On the kits I've used, the back of the cylinder is blocked and fitted with a bleed nipple (which of course you can't get at). Now I'm trying to remember what the tube for the remote resevoir fitted to. You can see why I'm reluctant to answer safety related queries...

a

Post by **Peetee** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 9:27 pm

don't bother with a servo at all as it does not increase your braking performance at all, it just makes the pedal easier to press

But that ease can make all the difference in many situations. Some people cannot push that hard, others who are used to modern brakes just can't make the mental/physical adjustment when they need to. Because of these scenarios a servo, in reality, does improve the braking capability.

Post by **simmitc** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 9:33 pm

I've fitted many servo kits and agree with general concept m/c to servo. servo out to in on 3 way, 1st out to existing front splitter (with brake light switch) 2nd out to existing rear splitter on back axle. Servo does not improve efficiency, but does make it a lot easier on the foot when using discs. The M/c has to come out to remove the "top hat" rubber washer, otherwise discs will bind on. Whilst out, the old rear feed is disconnected. The existing banjo bolt can be sealed with a bleed nipple - you don't have to get to it after it's fitted; but better still is fit a new banjo without the hole for the old connection. NB, this is not a standard banjo thread (it's BSF if memory serves correctly). Search web for "Mad Metrics". Roger there will make you a correct bolt. He can make any size /shape /thread bolt you need. Highly recommended. Good luck.

Post by **Cam** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 10:10 pm

Aha! Did the rear feed originally come from the back of the M/C? On the kits I've used, the back of the cylinder is blocked and fitted with a bleed nipple (which of course you can't get at).

Yes, but if there is a bleed nipple in there stopping it then that's answered my question.

others who are used to modern brakes just can't make the mental/physical adjustment when they need to. Because of these scenarios a servo, in reality, does improve the braking capability.

But that's driver error more than a physical improvement in braking force. The addition of a servo can actually DECREASE braking performance anyway by way of increased useage and fading.

Post by **bigginger** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 10:41 pm

Presumably you mean increased mechanical useage, do you? Surely the forces involved remain exactly the same, a given force to stop a given weight at a given speed. The only difference is that in one case some of the force is supplied by the servo (or your leg and then multiplied by the servo). Where does the extra fading come into it in normal, everyday driving?

*baffled, and absolutely no physicist*
a

Post by **Cam** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 11:14 pm

Yes, but because the braking is easier then there is less engine braking used and folks tend to be 'on the brakes' a bit more often and it can cause fade.

It's personal choice really. Servo or no-servo. Neither is wrong or right!

Post by **martylemoo** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 11:19 pm

Thanks for all the replies, just a thought.... Would it be wrong to remove all of the rear banjo bolt assembly on the master cylinder and just find the correct fitting union making just one exit hole?

Post by **bigginger** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 11:36 pm

I daren't answer, sorry

a

Post by **Cam** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:06 am

No, it would not be wrong as you would be displacing the same amount of fluid. Just through one pipe and through the servo. Of course you would have to get the EXACT fitting as if it is wrong ALL the brakes could fail with potentially lethal consequences.

It would be better if someone who had fitted one of these gave an input though as I have not fitted one myself. I have worked on braking systems on many servo'd cars but never modified one.

Post by **bigginger** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:21 am

All right, I'll dare - It'd be fine, but it seems a bit unnecessary to remove it and find the correct fitting. All the kits (or at any rate the 2 I've fitted) simply block the rear exit and use the banjo one to feed the servo. It'd probably be easier to just get hold of those bits from a specialist wouldn't it?

a
PS Both my ones from Charlie Ware's.

Post by **martylemoo** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:34 am

yes that is what i will do, as soon as charles wares reopens i will order the parts i need.
cheers
Martyn

Post by **Kevin** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 10:05 pm

All right, I'll dare - It'd be fine, but it seems a bit unnecessary to remove it and find the correct fitting

Hmm sorry but not the sort of advice I like to see about subjects like Brakes.

Post by **galaxie390** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 10:59 pm

Hi Folks,

Hope you all had a great christmas.

RIng the Birmingham Moggy centre. I got my servo kit from them and found them great to deal with.

The servo I fitted to my standard 4 wheel drums seems to be working very vell, although I'm still chasing a bit of trapped air

Have a good 2005!

Rich

Post by **Willie** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 9:24 am

MARTELYMOO...yes,use a bleed nipple to block up the original outlet
to the rear brakes and do remember to fit a remote reservoir kit
to the master cylinder whilst you are at it. The outlet for the remote
fits in place of the plug which is above the rear brake outlet.

Post by **martylemoo** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 2:41 pm

Thanks again for all the advice, i will order a bleed nipple. I am also intending to get the remote reservoir but all the normal companies have no stock at the moment, anyone know of any? i have tried all the companies in the OC mag. Also any tips on removing the drain plug? it is extremely tight my vice bends before it moves. Do you think it might be easier to refit the MC and then try undoing it?
Many thanks and have a good new yr.
Martyn

Post by **Willie** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 6:56 pm

You obviously need access to a better vice!! provided that you have
a well fitting spanner/socket the answer has to be more leverage, i.e. fit
a piece of metal piping or similar over the end of the spanner to get
more leverage. If you try it in situ in the chassis leg your access will
be restricted and it shouldn't really be necessary. (if you succeed in
fitting the remote kit then do not forget to seal the breather hole in
the filler cap!! Have you checked with Minor Developments on
01562 747718 ?

Post by **guydenning** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 7:11 pm

i'm getting a bit confooozed here. the brakes were one of the few things i wanted to sort on the mog. the disc option looks a bit out of the moolah bracket of an artist, so i was considering getting theservo assisted set-up. now it looks like there's some variety of opinion on their improvement of the stopping situation. any unbiased advice out there? i'm not interested in concours, from the showroom standard vehicles - we use it daily so practical improvements to stansard gear if appropriate would be in order. but i don't want to chuck a couple of hundred squideroos at something that won't give noticeable improvement. also on the braking front my handbrake isn't holding like it did to start with. i remember this from the previous mog we had and can remember twiddling with the adjuster under the carpets. i don't mind doing this but is there a preferred way of adjusting to maximise the length of time the handbrake remains effective?