fuel pump points

[Budgie]

Just in case I need to do this so how easy / difficult is it to fit / set the points on the pump for a novice?

[simmitc]

As long as you follow the instructions in the manual, it's a simple operation. You'll need a flat blade screwdriver. The only thing that puts some people off is that you have to strip the pump as the diaphragm is attached to a shaft that runs through the pump and has to be unscrewed to change the points assembly. However, bottom line is that it's still a simple job to do.

[moggalot]

To do it properly you have to unscrew the diaphragm which means taking off the pump chamber and sandwich plate. You can try to release the points (rocker assembly) by taking the pedestal apart (under the cap) removing the pivot pin and unscrewing it. BUT you risk damaging one or both of the wires which feed the electromagnet. Also you may be unable to achieve the correct setting for the diaphragm when you put it back together. (See below). If you are not going to dismantle the whole pump you might be better off just cleaning the contacts in-situ. If they are not too bad, you may be able to release a little more life by doing this. You can, of course get the top contact off easily and re-face it, but the lower one on the rocker assembly is a bit more difficult. If they are badly burnt (which is more likely) then you will be unlucky. The points are set by setting the upper and lower limits (not the actual gap - as in the case of the ignition points) The gap under the lower limit stop and the electromagnet housing should be 2.3mm and the gap between the upper (removable) contact back plate and the pedestal should be 0.9mm (It is easier to see it on a drawing). If you do take it all apart, you will probably need new gaskets for each side of the sandwich plate and also the fibre washers under the inlet, outlet and filter unions. The diaphragm should be screwed into the points so that the rockers are just not able to 'throw'. Then back the diaphragm off by 4 holes (ie 2/3rds of a turn) to get the correct adjustment. Clean out the filter chamber while you are at it and also replace the thin black washer under the brass valve cage. Simples!

[Budgie]

Thanks for the replies I'm sure it's simple for you guys but I'm confused already ! So is there a "repair kit" available that would have all the necessary bits I will need for a strip down ?

[bmcecosse]

Just clean the points meantime.... But yes -BURLEN are the people to get you what you need.

[Budgie]

OK so here's the latest, I took the pump off this morning, the points looked ok but there was a lot of carbon dust in and around the area but I drew some fine emery cloth between the points both top and bottom. I couldn't find the filter bowl and I seem to remember when I last took a pump off my first minor [it's over 30 years ago now]! that it was underneath or is my memory playing tricks on me .Any how I replaced the pump switched on the ignition and what seemed a long time , the pump slowly ticked / cluncked and finally stopped so thinking all is well and she's working again, I started her up and she ran for a minute or so and then back to stalling and again when I touched the pump body it was rather warm so I've removed the pump and it's now in my kitchen with me looking on in disgust!!!! by the way who are Burlen , I've never heard of them?

[bmcecosse]

Yes -the filter is underneath - unscrew the hex nut. http://sucarb.co.uk/history-burlen

[Gareth]

As BMC says, the filter is located underneath the cast body of the pump - there's a hexagonal plug on the bottom which, upon releasing, will draw out the filter.

Clean it with petrol and a brush (don't use a rag in case the fibres get caught in it).

It may be that the pump is overheating because it is working too hard - a blocked filter could be the cause. Also check that there isn't an extra inline filter somewhere in the pipework (they are usually fitted in the engine bay, so it would be easy to find) which needs attention.

Further to that, you might find that the breather on the fuel tank is blocked and creating a vacuum. Here's something to try - run the car until it stops and then remove the petrol tank cap. If there's a rush of air, you have a vacuum and a blocked breather. It might be possible to clean the breather, or just treat yourself to a lovely new (and easy to fit) stainless fuel cap.

If it does turn out to be the points (and I must admit that it sounds likely) you can buy a complete rebuild kit from Burlen Fuel Systems. They're knowledgeable folk who would, I'm sure, advise on how best to affect a repair. You can also buy pumps from them that have already been rebuilt or remanufacturered. They're not tremendously expensive, but it's more satisfying to effect a repair oneself.

If you do take the whole assembly apart, make sure you get new gaskets - a home-made set from a cornflakes packet will only go so far. Don't ask how I know that...

[biomed32uk]

The kit is well worth fitting, I did mine, it comes with instructions as well and there is tons of info on the web. Sure if you youtube it there will even be a walk through video.

You basically end up with a new pump at the end of it as it replaces everything that can possibly wear out.

SU Pumps seem to have gotten a name for being unreliable which they are not, service them properly and they will tick on for years.

The newer points have twin contacts and come with a transorb which quenches the spark, so the points have a much easier time.

[Budgie]

there is definitely no filter under the pump as I was expecting this because I remember cleaning one many years ago the pump has the name Hardi on the plastic cover and is made in Germany so could this be a slightly different model? I thought about a possible air lock so I did the fuel cap test the first time it happened and there is no inline fuel filter on the car and if there was I'd remove it a.s.a.p. as has been recommended on here many times as I know that they cause more problems than the worth of it. Just double checked the pump to make sure I'm not going mad and the casting which bolts onto the body work and where the inlet and outlet are based is a lot thinner than the ones on ESM and Burlen so I must have a different model bl***y typical I new I wasn't seeing things, or not as the case may be. So would this model have a filter inside the body? I know a picture paints a thousand words but I have no idea how to upload one but a mate is calling later and he's good with computers so perhaps he can sort one out, in the meantime it looks as if it might be easier to but a new one and get this one refurbed at a later stage and keep as a spare?

[bmcecosse]

The Hardi pump is a nasty copy of the real thing.....do a flow test to see how much it pumps... And buy a proper SU - points, not electronic.....

[liammonty]

What's the evidence for the 'electronic' SU pumps (i.e. without points) being unreliable?

[Gareth]

I don't think its so much that they are unreliable... they should be more reliable than the points versions. However, when the traditional type are ailing, it's usually possible to fettle them back into life and get you on your way again. When the electronic ones go west, that's it! New pump time. The same applies for electronic ignition.

With reference to the OP, however - if it's not an SU, you need to bin it. Burlen will sell you a proper one but you can also get them from all the Minor parts suppliers. Don't forget that many offer a discount if you are a paid-up member of the MMOC.

[simmitc]

Club spares are selling reconditioned pumps too.

[Trickydicky]

Nothing wrong with the Hardi fuel pumps, as for reliability I have had one on my car for the last 4 years with no issues. The only problem the Hardi fuel pumps are guilty of is being noisy. I cured this by mounting mine with mini rubber exhaust mounts and now you can hardly hear it. Also they are dual polarity so if you are converting your car from positive to negative earth you simply swop the connections around.
Did yours pump fuel into a container when you tested it?

[Budgie]

Thanks for all the replies and info folks I new I wasn't going mad, so a new pump it is then and no I didn't do the pipe in a jar test as the points / pump stopped working after a short while so is it worth refubing this Hardi one or just stick with new / refurbed genuine su?

[Trickydicky]

Thanks for all the replies and info folks I new I wasn't going mad, so a new pump it is then and no I didn't do the pipe in a jar test as the points / pump stopped working after a short while so is it worth refubing this Hardi one or just stick with new / refurbed genuine su?

I have never taken a Hardi fuel pump apart so I don't know if they can be repaired? It won't hurt to take off the cover to see if it can be repaired.
As for a replacement SU pump, you pays your money you takes your choice. It's your decision as to what brand you buy but as far as I know there are only two brands available to buy.......

[bmcecosse]

Dunno where you would get spares for a Hardi - and several folks have reported failures with the 'electronic' SU pump - but of course the points versions only seem to last 40 years or so....

[moggalot]

The Hardi pumps are NOT all electronic. They do make a dual polarity electronic version, but there are points versions out there. In my experience, they are repairable. Whilst you cannot get the points for them, they tend to have a lot more 'meat' on the contact blades and will usually respond to a good clean up. Don't bin it. The best bet for a novice is to buy a reconditioned unit from MMOC club spares

[bmcecosse]

I don't think anyone suggested the Hardi pump was electronic.... Who does the reconditioning for MMOC ?