Engine refitting without gearbox

[edd_barker]

Morning all,

Thought I would make this a separate post, as I couldn't find the relevant info using the search tool on the forum, so may be of future use.

Does anyone have any advice on refitting a 1098 engine whilst the gearbox is still in the car?

It was very tight on removal, there is not enough room to slide the engine off the gearbox splines before it hits the floor of the engine bay at the front. Much angling and swearing did get it out, but popped the release bearing half off the clutch assy.

My plan for refitting is to use a load levelling bar to angle it down and in, but any tips would be appreciated! Currently the driver side engine-mount is fitted to the car, and the passenger side will be bolted to the engine.

Thanks in advance,

Edd

[myoldjalopy]

Have you removed the radiator and front grille panel? That should make it easy. Not sure why it should hit the floor of the engine bay. Is the gearbox mounted correctly?

[simmitc]

You need to jack the box up as high as it will go and then lower the engine in at an angle that can be adjusted by using another jack at the back of the engine. It is certainly easier with the front panel out, but not essential as the engine can twist through 90 degrees as it is lowered. The rad needs to be out even if the panel is left in place. Somehow it just works when you do it, easier than describing it

[edd_barker]

Thanks for replies so far,

Rad and front panel completely removed, it is the sump catching on the front of the engine-bay floor. Plenty of room above! I will examine the gearbox mounts but the car has been checked over many times by minor specialists so I would be amazed if something obvious like that were amiss!

I will try the technique with the jacks, and the levelling bar should allow me to angle the engine as necessary.

Thanks,

Edd

[philthehill]

I doubt that there is anything wrong with the gearbox mountings.
The gearbox needs to be raised up as far as it can go - that is hard against the cross member which supports the dampers.
Make sure that the gearbox is in gear as it helps to engage the first motion shaft and clutch centre plate.
Once the gearbox is right up and with the engine slightly tilted the engine can be easily fitted.
Just take care when the first motion shaft enters the clutch cover carbon thrust pressure pad. The pad can easily become displaced in the process of getting the gearbox and engine to come together.

[biomed32uk]

I have done mine a couple of times like this, and it will go.

It is certainly made easier by one of the levelling bars you can get for the hoist, and I can do mine single handed now.

Leave or take the heater tap off the back of the head as well, gives much more tilt, also the battery can get in the way.

If you get the engine in the right area, using the levelling bar tilt it back pretty much as far as you can, it should then be possible to feed the engine back over the first motion shaft with the sump clearing at the front.

As soon as its back far enough to clear the sump at the front you can then start bringing it back in line with the leveller, making sure you are not bearing the weight on the first motion shaft or about to ping the release bearing apart (been there !).

It's careful manipulation between the levelling bar and the height of the hoist, and you can wiggle and jiggle the engine back into place feeding it onto the gearbox. Make sure your clutch plate is centred up.

Take it slowly and carefully, and at all times make sure you are not straining or bending that first motion shaft.

[rayofleamington]

I've never used a hoist if the front panel is off - just a bit of floorboard over the front floor and 2jacks

Scissor jack to hold up front of gearbox.
Trolley jack + piece of wood in the hole where engine used to be.

Remove engine mounting towers and there's a lot of room to play.

[myoldjalopy]

Obviously, it can be done on your own but if you got a mate to help its even easier. The reason I mentioned whether the box was fitted correctly, is that I once had a car where someone had previously misaligned something (the mounting rubbers? Can't remember, it was a long time ago, but it made the job very difficult until I saw what the problem was).

[andypocock]

...and if you really are getting nowhere just pull the gearbox and it's crossmember out, bolt it to the engine and stick them in together.

[edd_barker]

Well it's in, but there is definitely something amiss!

The engine just would not fit over the front engine bay crossmember, the sump was catching it. It took a LOT of wiggling and angle changing before it finally scraped over it and on.

We did not hear a noise like the clutch cover release bearing pressure pad pinging off, and on testing the clutch operation is correct ( turning by hand the engine won't turn in gear, but then will turn when clutch depressed), is there any other way to confirm it is ok before I bolt everything else on? A few hours work wasted if I get it running and clutch doesn't work!

So, there is no chance I could get the engine off the first motion shaft and rotate it, just isn't the room. I think that the front engine bay floor crossmember has been replaced with a piece that is too deep, does anyone have a picture of theirs? Otherwise, my gearbox is an inch too far forward. At least.

Thanks,

Edd

[les]

If I had heard a noise like that I would part the assembly again to check everything. It would play on my mind if I left it.

[philthehill]

If you are having difficulty getting the engine sump past the front cross member it may be that the gearbox mountings/packing brackets have been fitted the wrong way round and to the incorrect side of the gearbox which would push the gearbox and of course the engine forward reducing the clearance between sump and front cross member.
What is the orientation of the engine mount towers. The vertical face/side of the mount tower should be at the rear.
It is possible to fit the engine mount towers the other way round i.e. vertical face/side facing forward.
If your engine mount towers are incorrectly fitted (or even correctly fitted) I would recommend that the gearbox mounts and packing brackets are disconnected the engine mount towers fitted to the correct orientation and then fit the gearbox mounting/packing brackets to suit the new position of the engine gearbox.
Fitting the gearbox mountings/packing brackets the wrong way round is easily done.
See BMC Wksp Man illustration FFF.2 for correct orientation of the gearbox mounting
/packing brackets. The offset of the packing bracket should be to the rear
Phil

[edd_barker]

Phil that is definitely what has happened. I have refitted the engine towers as they were, which is with the vertical surface (with the hole in) biased towards the front of the car! Apologies also to the other member who suggested this first, and whom I ignored!

So the car has been running like this for years. I did think that the gap between the head and the battery tray was large, over an inch. I was expecting to have to whack it with a hammer!

So for this I need to take the weight of engine using the hoist, undo engine towers and remove, then undo gearbox mounts and slide back? Does the gearbox need to come out or be separated from the engine?

Thanks,

Edd

[les]

My earlier response was made after misreading one of your posts! You said you did NOT hear a noise when assembling, I carelessly read it as hearing a noise, my apologies !

[philthehill]

The vertical face of the mount tower surface the large hole is vertical whether the engine mount tower is correctly orientated or not.
The rolled edge of the large hole in the centre of the mount tower should roll to the rear.
The vertical face I refer to is the back edge of the tower. The outer wrap and front edge of the tower slopes down and forward.
If the roll of the large hole is rearwards you have the mount tower fitted correctly.
As I said above get the engine mount towers right and then do the gearbox mounts. It will all fall into place once the front mounts are correct.
You do not have remove the gearbox just support it so you can remove and refit the gearbox mounts/packing brackets correctly if that is what is required.
As an aside when the 1275cc Maestro engine is fitted to the Minor the engine mount towers have to be fitted the wrong way round to accommodate the additional length of the crankshaft seal housing - so having the mounts fitted backwards is no great deal. Even with the 1098cc engine fitted and the towers the wrong way round the car will run perfectly adequately for ever but of course it is not right.

[edd_barker]

Now I am really confused!

Phil I will have to check on the car tomorrow and report back with pictures. It is not parked at my flat. I am pretty certain that the lip of the roll points towards the rear of the car, as if the hole was pressed through from the front towards the rear. Does that make sense? I am not sure of what surface you are referring to but will check tomorrow.

Can I access the mounting rubbers from below the car or best to remove the cover plate from inside? I have done this before so no big deal.

Thanks,

Edd

[philthehill]

Edd
Roll to the rear as pressed from the front - that make sense to me.
Check tomorrow and if possible post a picture.
Make life easier and remove the floor if not difficult and should not be as you have removed it before - you can also have a very good view of the orientation of the gearbox mountings/packing brackets. A couple of photos of the gearbox mounts/packing brackets would not go amiss.
Phil

[edd_barker]

Ok pictures to follow, tomorrow hopefully.

Thanks all!

[edd_barker]

Hi all,

So the engine towers are fitted correctly! It is still likely that the gearbox mounts are incorrect, but I think that my time will be best spent making sure the engine runs ok. The medium-term plan is to replace the gearbox anyway, so I will do this and renew the mounts etc if and when I get the engine running ok!

Thanks,

Exd