Front suspension rebuild question

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westy24
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Front suspension rebuild question

Post by westy24 »

Hi all, I'm in the middle of a restoration (Barrie's project) , I have just had the engine bay painted . Ready for the front suspension to be fitted ,what is the correct sequence in fitting the full set up of the suspension ?
If it was me I would =
1. Fit the torsion bar
2. Fit damper
3.fit the tie rod
4.fit the hub assembly to torsion bar
5 then jack up the hub assembly to reach the damper unit

Is this correct as I'm not entirely sure and I can't find anything in the search bar .
philthehill
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Re: Front suspension rebuild question

Post by philthehill »

If the engine is out you will have difficulty getting the top trunnion eye to reach up to the damper pin.
The car body will rise as you jack up the lower suspension arms as there will be no weight to jack against.
Remove the bump and rebound stops to give you a bit more movement of the damper arm and load the engine bay.

Basic assembly is thus:-
Fit torsion bar, thick suspension arm and eye bolt.
Fit damper.
Fit swivel pin to outer end of thick suspension arm. (Secure top of swivel to body to stop it falling outwards)
Fit thin suspension arm.
Jack up under outer end of thick/thin suspension arms and fit top trunnion over and around damper pin. (leaving everything loose makes life easier)
Fit brake assys.
Fit hub assys.
Connect rack to steering arm.
Leave fitting the tie bar till last. (Poly bush to the front and a rubber bush to the rear- this arrangement give good resistance under braking whilst the rubber bush allows flexibility of the tie bar)

westy24
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Re: Front suspension rebuild question

Post by westy24 »

So I take it there's no way of fitting the top to the damper ? I don't know how I removed it all to be honest! Il have a go though at the weekend , the top and bottom trunnions when fitted to the hub , are they screwed down fully on the hub ?
Last edited by westy24 on Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
philthehill
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Re: Front suspension rebuild question

Post by philthehill »

It will go but you do need to have enough weight in the car body to overcome the torsion bar and that is why I suggested removing the bump stop and rebound rubber to get a bit more damper arm movement.
The top and bottom trunnions are not fully screwed onto the steering swivel (not the hub/or king pin which are different parts)
The top trunnion has to have enough swivel to allow the steering to function so needs to be backed off a turn to allow that to happen.
The bottom trunnion has to be screwed onto the swivel sufficiently to allow the bottom trunnion pin to pass through the dead ground between the threads on the swivel without fouling.
The above two operations will have be adjusted to suit the trunnions/swivel.
If any problems please ask on here.
Last edited by philthehill on Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

westy24
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Re: Front suspension rebuild question

Post by westy24 »

I see , I may just fit what I can then , and one day il get round to fitting the engine !
Do you know anything about the trunnions weather they are fully screwed onto the hub ( as far as they will go) ? Il get a few pics up of what iv done so far .
westy24
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Re: Front suspension rebuild question

Post by westy24 »

What iv done so far
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philthehill
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Re: Front suspension rebuild question

Post by philthehill »

Your additional questions are answered in my post above.
All looking good but:-
That bottom trunnion has to be fitted to the swivel before fitting it between the thick/thin arms because the swivel will not screw fully into the bottom trunnion as the trunnion pin is in the way. The bottom trunnion pin fits into and through the dead ground of the threads.
That copper looking washer fitted to the tie bar rear bracket should not be there. A spring washer should be fitted under the special deep nut.
There appears to be a machined thrust washer missing from the bottom trunnion at the thin arm side

westy24
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Re: Front suspension rebuild question

Post by westy24 »

philthehill wrote:Your additional questions are answered in my post above.
All looking good but:-
That bottom trunnion has to be fitted to the swivel before fitting it between the thick/thin arms because the swivel will not screw fully into the bottom trunnion as the trunnion pin is in the way. The bottom trunnion pin fits into and through the dead ground of the threads.
That copper looking washer fitted to the tie bar rear bracket should not be there. A spring washer should be fitted under the special deep nut.
There appears to be a machined thrust washer missing from the bottom trunnion at the thin arm side
I see so the trunnion pin slides between the two threaded sections on the swivel , where there is no thread? Sorry for asking these silly questions, I'm new to Morris suspension. Yes the copper looking washer came from the part that slides into the chassis , I don't know if that washer needs to be on the engine side or the other sided the chassis, the inner diameter of the washer fits the main shaft of the eye bolt ,so I'm guessing it shouldn't be on the engine side ?
The washer on the trunnion your on about , does it get covered by the little rubber?if so it's there, it may look like it but the thin arm is a little out of shape .
greendefender123
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Re: Front suspension rebuild question

Post by greendefender123 »

When put my front suspension back together i didnt have any weight in it aswell it was just a shell. I just fitted the torsion bar arm 'the thicker one' so i could get it all back together. Then one of my last jobs once the the engine and box were back in was adjusting the ride height. Which involves splitting the arm again and working out what heights i needed. This was then achieved by moving the arm around on the splines. Took acouple of attempts as my original measurements were out due to a rusted crossmember end.

Hopefully this might give you some ideas. The extra work redoing the height is only minutes as they've been apart recently.

Steve
philthehill
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Re: Front suspension rebuild question

Post by philthehill »

There is no such thing as a silly question - we all have to start somewhere.
The copper looking washer if it fits over the eye bolt shaft has most likely come from between the eye bolt eye and the chassis to adjust the wheel camber. The camber (and caster) should be checked when fully assembled and the suspension fully bedded in.
The main body of the bottom trunnion pin does indeed fit between the threads at the bottom of the swivel.
The washer in question is covered by the rubber ring and fits between the bottom trunnion pin and thin arm.
If the thin arm is out of shape it should be replaced.
Whilst the suspension can be assembled with the thick arm in the wrong place I do not believe in doing the job twice or more.
Load the engine bay to enable the thick arm to be jacked up.
Use the measurements/instructions in the drawing below for the initial setting of the thick arm.
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biomed32uk
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Re: Front suspension rebuild question

Post by biomed32uk »

And the bottom trunnion is the wrong way round - I may be pointing the obvious out there.

Lay some boards in the engine bay floor across the front legs and put some weight on them, being careful not to mark the paint, or get a helper to sit in there - should give you enough weight to lift the arms up against the torsion bar.
philthehill
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Re: Front suspension rebuild question

Post by philthehill »

Well spotted that man.

westy24
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Re: Front suspension rebuild question

Post by westy24 »

Excellent, il have a go at the weekend ,and report back , the diagram shows 3 measurements , I take it C is the measurement il need to set up to begin with ? I have an hgv mechanic helping and I'm sure he will be the muscle and il be the one with all your info !
Is there any preference for grease / copper slip when building up ?I went for copper slip ,is this a good call?
philthehill
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Re: Front suspension rebuild question

Post by philthehill »

'C' it is.
Just fit the lower thick arm to the torsion bar (free of and not connected to the swivel) and the difference in height between the inner pin centre and the outer pin centre (when the car is level across the chassis legs) should be 143mm.
If you are using rubber bushes use red rubber grease on the bushes, if you are using poly bushes you can use red rubber grease or white water pump grease on the poly bushes.
As regards grease for threads - copper /slip/ease is best.

midget
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Re: Front suspension rebuild question

Post by midget »

I am nearing the stage of my van resto to complete this task. I have a choice of fitting eng/box or weighting the the engine bay.
How much weight does this need? How "large " does the mate have to be? :D Could the bars be compressed with ratchet straps?
John
westy24
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Re: Front suspension rebuild question

Post by westy24 »

That’s a very good question. The barn I’m using has plenty of heavy things to use but the ratchet strap idea has got me thinking . Is it possible without damaging the body work / mechanical components ? Or maybe use a combination of weight , jack and ratchet strap maybe
philthehill
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Re: Front suspension rebuild question

Post by philthehill »

If you want to use a ratchet strap - what are you going to attach the top of the strap to?
The damper arm is not vertical above the thick/thin arms and you cannot attach the strap direct to the damper pin as you need that clear to fit the top trunnion.
The safest way is to load the engine bay just enough to overcome the rotational resistance of the torsion bar.

biomed32uk
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Re: Front suspension rebuild question

Post by biomed32uk »

I really would favour the load the engine bay method, the ratchet strap method is entirely possible but you need to make sure nothing slips off.

It's not a huge amount that you have to wind the torsion bar up by to hook the top trunnion round and over the damper pin, but enough that should something let go with your fingers in the way it will hurt. Remember you will need to do some wiggling to get it all to fit back.

I am sure I saw somewhere a homemade clamp that would pull the two together, so securely attached to the damper arm and lower arm then drawing the two together, bit like a coil spring compressor - and I used to throw a blanket over struts when taking them apart as if that spring lets go you'll end up wearing it.
westy24
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Re: Front suspension rebuild question

Post by westy24 »

Ok , the safest way is the best way, I sure don't want to be hurt or my mate for that matter , like you say the damper is a fair way off the torsion bar and it would be difficult and a little scary if it slipped, thank you for all of your help , il have a go and I'm sure il be asking more questions in a few days !
westy24
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Re: Front suspension rebuild question

Post by westy24 »

Hi all , iv fitted the washer , and tried to adjust the torsion bar to the right height but I can't get that exact measurement , it's measures more then measurement (c) in the diagram , the torsion bar is on its highest setting , any thoughts ? . Also I take the top trunnion can only go one way ? Also how far do you screw it in on the hub as the pin doesn't go through a thread less section on the hub to locate it ??
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