Can you ID a cable please

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Victorplum
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Can you ID a cable please

Postby Victorplum » Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:48 pm

Hi,

I purchased a Morris Traveller van conversion 6 months ago. All good so far. However, when I took the battery out to charge up, I noticed a couple of corroded cables coming from the Alternator (See pics) The car starts and runs fine. Do I need them? Are they just Earth cables? I am still a novice in car maintenance but am picking it up fairly quickly (I hope)

Many thanks

Steve
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philthehill
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Re: Can you ID a cable please

Postby philthehill » Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:55 pm

The cables in question look to be the spare cables from when the alternator was fitted.

More importantly your electrical wiring needs to be tided up urgently especially the main positive feed cable area - if you do not tidy it up you are at risk of having a short circuit and the car going up in flames.
Those spare cables already look as if they have been short circuited as they have little to no insulation on them.
Turn the battery round so that the terminals are away from the battery clamp but still keeping the negative earth which may require a longer or extension cable to the positive terminal.
Last edited by philthehill on Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.


RobThomas
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Re: Can you ID a cable please

Postby RobThomas » Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:03 pm

Does rather look like the conversion to Alternator was made after those wires go torched, doesn't it. :(
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Victorplum
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Re: Can you ID a cable please

Postby Victorplum » Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:06 pm

So remove the short circuited cables straight away and cut them off near the base where it meets the Alternator attachment?

If I turn battery around the main positive and negative cables are not going to reach. Maybe a good idea to get it into the garage as I wouldn't know what to do with installing the extension battery cables.

Told you I was a novice!!

Thanks

philthehill
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Re: Can you ID a cable please

Postby philthehill » Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:10 pm

Trim the cables back to near the wiring loom and wrap them individually and to the loom with insulation tape.


simmitc
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Re: Can you ID a cable please

Postby simmitc » Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:24 pm

As above, I would normally recommend turning the battery round to take the terminals away from the clamp bar, but in your case I would be wary... The battery is held away from the bulkhead by two rubber buffers. The standard battery would sit neatly below the top of the battery box, but from the photos it looks as though your battery might be slightly taller and is touching the lip of the box - there might be a risk of the terminals fouling the top lip of the box. Not saying that they will, I'm only going by the photo, but if you go down that route then offer the battery up very slowly and stop if there is any risk of contact. Also check that the buffers are in place behind the battery as they should hold it away from the lip. There is nothing wrong with your battery, it's just a little taller than the standard one and probably has a higher capacity, which can be a good thing.

Victorplum
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Re: Can you ID a cable please

Postby Victorplum » Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:28 pm

I'll try and turn the battery around later on as per your advice. Thank you

mogbob
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Re: Can you ID a cable please

Postby mogbob » Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:18 pm

Noting your self proclaimed "novice status " at present ( we all started there didn't we ? ) it is vital that you disconnect the main battery terminals before starting any tinkering with the electrics.
As most cars are Negative earth the short black lead to the body of the car should always be disconnect first , then the positive red lead. Place the disconnected leads away from the battery terminals.You do not want them to fall back onto the terminals.
There is a lot of power ( Amps ) in a battery. If the positive lead is tackled first with a spanner and it touches the positive nut and bolt and the metal bodywork at the same time , the outcome will be a big flash of electricity ( when a circuit is completed ). Severe burns will be inflicted and in extreme cases the battery might explode , showering you with battery acid. Something you want to avoid at all costs !

So ALWAYS disconnect the negative earth first ( that way if the spanner touches the bodywork , nothing happens , you stay safe.
It's also a good idea to remove metal watches and any jewellery , rings before starting work on electrics.
Re connection is the reverse of the procedure. Connect the positive red lead first , followed by the negative black lead.
I have assumed your car is negative earth.
Bob

Victorplum
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Re: Can you ID a cable please

Postby Victorplum » Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:11 am

Thanks Bob. Noted. I knew this but a reminder was appreciated.

firedrake1942
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Re: Can you ID a cable please

Postby firedrake1942 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:45 am

Just out of curiosity, what engine is that with the oil filter so far back on the side ?

philthehill
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Re: Can you ID a cable please

Postby philthehill » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:40 am

The engine is either Marina/Ital or Maestro.


firedrake1942
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Re: Can you ID a cable please

Postby firedrake1942 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:19 am

Ta phil

jm

geoberni
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Re: Can you ID a cable please

Postby geoberni » Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:05 pm

OMG That's a fire waiting to happen :o

Why on earth would anyone leave those old cables there?
They have clearly shorted out in the past, hence the severely melted appearance. Di
I couldn't make out where the other ends went to; are they down by the Alternator somewhere? Buried in that taped up cable run?
Get rid of them immediately .. if they are wrapped into the cable run with the other live cables, there's a good chance they could abrade the insulation and damage the new live cables.

Turning the battery around will mean changing the cables as I doubt there is sufficient length to reach the extra distance; probably easier to do a far neater job of mounting the clamp and the bracket, including some insulating tape.
If you've got a grinder, you could take a little material from that retaining bar, but it's not top of the list.
At the moment your clamp is only 1/2 on the battery post. What's the condition of it under all that black tape?

What's really confusing me is why there are so many cables going to the battery connector anyway?
Every image I've ever seen of a MM Engine Bay only has the single Starter cable at the battery connector, the Dynamo/Alternator connection is made at the solenoid/starter switch.

Here's a photo of mine to illustrate the point.
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Basil the 1955 series II

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RobThomas
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Re: Can you ID a cable please

Postby RobThomas » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:03 pm

Add a cover to the terminal so you don't accidentally short it out when you are monkeying around under the bonnet. Those metal clamp bars are just asking to touch both terminals at once. I see Geoberni has put some stuff on to insulate the area. Good plan! :D

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-x-Battery- ... SwVtZaAakS

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Victorplum
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Re: Can you ID a cable please

Postby Victorplum » Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:53 pm

Thanks for the replies all.

Ended up called by a friend out who knows a lot more than I do. He insulated the cables as a short term measure until I can get to the Morris garage to get the damaged wiring sorted. He also moved the battery connectors at a safer angle.

What he also noticed was that those extra cables from alternator to battery needed to be connected to the positive so it charged the battery. The ignition light stayed on previously and that’s when I had to use a jump starter.

The engine is a marina. It also has a marina 5 speed gearbox so I’m lead to believe.

Thanks again

philthehill
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Re: Can you ID a cable please

Postby philthehill » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:06 am

If the car has a five speed gearbox I suspect that the gearbox fitted is a Ford Type 9 gearbox. The Type 9 is the five speed gearbox conversion being advocated these days. Other five speed boxes have been used, sourced in the main from Japanese vehicles.


BrianHawley
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Re: Can you ID a cable please

Postby BrianHawley » Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:01 pm

philthehill wrote:If the car has a five speed gearbox I suspect that the gearbox fitted is a Ford Type 9 gearbox. The Type 9 is the five speed gearbox conversion being advocated these days. Other five speed boxes have been used, sourced in the main from Japanese vehicles.
Mainly Toyota Celica from Charles Ware I think?

Nice tough boxes but hard to find these days. Hence the shift to Fords.
Brian

Image "Jodie". '67 Traveller, 1275, discs, suspension mods etc.

Victorplum
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Re: Can you ID a cable please

Postby Victorplum » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:41 am

On the subject of gearboxes, there doesn't seem to be an access hole for the gearbox oil in the usual place inside the vehicle. Would it have been relocated when the gearbox was upgraded? Thanks

philthehill
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Re: Can you ID a cable please

Postby philthehill » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:59 am

The gearbox floor cover (possibly fiberglass) for the Ford (or other) gearbox conversion does not require the access hole in the floor plate to be in the same place as the Minor because the Ford (or other) filler/level plug is in a different position/place. Therefore the access hole is not incorporated.


Victorplum
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Re: Can you ID a cable please

Postby Victorplum » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:51 pm

Ah, ok. Thank you.

I take it ill have to get to it from below then?


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