Oil filter conversion

[MKT]

Hi

I am about to do the first engine oil and filter change since owning my minor, a new filter from ESM is £8 with pp a conversion kit for a screw on filter including filter is £35 with pp , my question is, is there any advantage to the conversion for the extra money, and is the kit easy to fit

Ron

[oliver90owner]

Cleaner - less mess - no need to clean the canister, no gaskets to change or get squashed. No parts to lose, misplace or assemble in the wrong order, etc. Personally I would not bother, but your choice. Less likelihood of over tighening and causing leaks.

Ease of change-over depends on the operator. No problem for me, but I cannot speak for all.

I would/might machine up my own conversion at that price.

I buy my filters from my local motor factor, so prices are somewhat different.

You may need a strap wrench, or similar, to remove the spin-on filter if overtightened - a screwdriver driven through the filter, for removal, tends to make a bit of a mess....

The filters supplied may have a bypass valve fitted - good if one neglects to change the filter at the proper intervals, I suppose....

Can’t think of any more pros and cons at the mo. Others might add to the list.

[philthehill]

One of the best conversions you can do to a 'A' Series engine and is easy to fit.
The only thing to take special care of is that there is no strain in the metal feed pipe from the block to filter head. Just bend adjust to suit.
Some fit a flexible pipe to remove any miss alignment but not really required for a standard motor.
You can usually pick up a filter head and feed pipe from 'e' bay for much less. The Minor oil feed pipe will fit with care.
You will need the two filter head mounting bolts and a gasket as well.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Classic-Mini ... SwIk9aZeFv

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CLASSIC-AUST ... xy8HlSb~VF

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CLASSIC-MINI ... SwIzBavObD

If my addition is correct the total 'e' bay cost is £24.84.

When fitting smear some oil on the rubber seal and only do up hand tight. Fill the filter body with oil before fitting.

[MKT]

Thanks I did not realise the mini was the same as the minor

Ron

[paul 300358]

If you do decide to fit a spin on filter, make sure that you use two spanners to undo the pipe union from the filter head or the chances are you will split the pipe.
Paul

[philthehill]

The classic Mini oil filter where it attaches to the block is the same as the Minor 1000.
Early classic Minis has a similar oil filter housing to the Minor 1000.
Because of the similarity of the mounting the spin on filter head and element filter head are interchangeable.

To enlarge on Pauls post above use one spanner to hold and stop the adapter union that screws into the filter head from rotating and use the other spanner to undo the pipe union nut that screws onto the adapter union.

[Trickydicky]

If you do the conversion Halfords HOF203 is the filter you need, of the shelf and £3.70

[liammonty]

I've never really seen the point. I quite like the fact that I'm not throwing away a lump of metal as well as paper when I change the original filter - interestingly, most modern cars now have a similar set up (albeit less messy) that means you only replace the paper element - I suspect it's for environmental reasons. Can't disagree that it's easier to change the screw-on canister type, but I've never considered changing the the oil filter one of the most challenging jobs on the Minor!

[philthehill]

You do not have to throw away the metal spin off filter.
After draining the filter usually by punching a hole in the bottom and leaving overnight it goes in the metal recycling skip.
Any paper inside the filter will be consumed in the metal recycling process.
To me that is more environmentally friendly than throwing away or placing in the bin for landfill a dirty and oily paper oil filter element.
Phil

[oliver90owner]

We are not permitted to put anything oily in the landfill bin. Old filters should be taken to the local recycling centre where any residual oil is squeezed out (under considerable pressure!), then theyare passed on for further recycling.

Our peuget and citroen are rubbish in respect of the oil filters as they spin on horizontally - so always a mess, which needs catching in a drip pan and wiping down afterwards, when removing them!

RAB

[ManyMinors]

I agree with Liam in that I find it perfectly simple to change the paper element filter. One of our cars has had the spin on conversion fitted and I find it a fiddle to change because of poor access and have had to purchase a strap wrench in order to change it!

No problem with recycling the old paper filters - I find they make excellent firelighters

[philthehill]

Many Minors
I have not come across any problems as regards access to a spin on oil filter conversion fitted to a Minor 1000.
What problems are you encountering?
A spin on filter can be changed without getting under the car.
A strap may be of use but it is not imperative as a screw driver through the side of the filter (with a catch bowl under) is just as good.
One of the biggest advantages with a spin on filter is that you can prime the oil filter so that when you spin over the engine to start it the time between the engine firing and adequate oil pressure being raised is negligible.
That time when the paper oil filter canister is being filled from empty by the oil pump and before full oil pressure is raised is the time that the bearings and journals can take a hammering.
Cutting down that non or reduced oil pressure time helps with prolonging the life of the bearings and journals.

I certainly would not want to light my wood burning stove with an oily filter element.
Phil

[ManyMinors]

Phil, I don't have any "problem" changing the spin on filter having purchased a strap wrench but I simply don't see the point in purchasing the conversion which is sold on the basis of making the job easier when I don't find it difficult in the first place. Without the strap wrench I didn't find unscrewing the spin on filter particularly easy due to the limited space around it and banging a screwdriver into a canister full of old engine oil seems a rather crude solution.
I have to get under the car to drain the oil in any case so accessing the original type filter while down there is no problem and having carried out the job regularly for the last half a century or so I'm fairly familiar with it.
Yes, you can put oil in the filter more easily with the later filters but I haven't had to change crankshaft bearings during the last few 100,000 miles so I don't think premature wear is such a major issue ......

Not only have I not seen the need to purchase such a conversion, I haven't forked out for a wood burning stove either

[oliver90owner]

A few points.

If one is worried about lack of oil pressure at restart, one can always remove the king lead temporarily - or even better, remove the plugs to avoid any compression loading on the bearings - and crank the engine until the oil pressure switch is extinguished.

I always achieved oil pressure on a fresh rebuild before fitting plugs. Less load on the starter motor is another benefit, with plugs removed. Cold oil/engine and a good oil pump will need the pressure relief valve to be operating at quite low engine speeds (or the engine will be already in need of major overhaul!) so pumping the necessary volume of oil should not take long.

I cannot prime the filters which screw on horizontally but I always crank the engine cold without any glow plug preheat. Even so the compression pressures are very considerably higher in a diesel engine than a spark ignited one and a few turns at slow speed of rotation is unlikely to cause early bearing failure. It is not like they are actually devoid of any lubrication whatsoever.

Many spin-on oil filters are overtightened at fitment, making it difficult to be removed later. The scewdriver trick is sometimes necessary where access is extremely limited on some modern engines!

I haven’t removed an engine drain plug in years. I remove the old oil via the dipstick tube these days...

The only difficult bit of the old type, in my experience, is removing the old and refitting the new sealing rings although holding the canister and screwing in the bolt was a bit fussy, at times, on some engines.

[philthehill]

Oliver90owner
The only problem with removing the oil via the dip stick is that you do not remove the crud that has settled in the sump.
Oil should be drained from the sump when hot with a free flow from the drain plug which helps to pull out and remove the crud.

To alleviate the problem of the near horizontal oil filter on my 1380cc (bored 1275cc Ital) engine I have fitted a remote oil filter which has a spin on oil filter which is primed before initial starting of the engine.
The delivery pipe from the oil pump is removed and the oil pump primed so that oil has filled the oil pump rotors.
The spark plugs are removed and the engine turned over on the starter until full oil pressure is obtained, the plugs refitted and the engine started.
With a very high compression engine and expensive crankshaft I am not prepared to take any chances.

Manyminors
Having a wood burning stove is great.
It warms my central heating and hot water if required and mostly with free wood. Lovely jubbly.

Phil

[ampwhu]

one of the 1st upgrades I did 20 years ago was to fit the spin on filter. much better and when I bought 100 spin on filters for £100 a few years ago, I never needed to buy another in my lifetime. I have sold a few to mates, but still have enough.

[oliver90owner]

Phil,

My view of the matter is that:

1). With detergent oils, there should be minimal settlement of particles as they can be held in suspension for years - not like non-detergent oils where sediment in the sump can be a problem. Some of my old tractors have had a huge amount of crud in the crankcase. It was a regular service operation, to remove and clean the sump at intervals, for many vintage engines. Most of the splash lubricated stationary engines I have purchased, for renovation, have had a large amount of crud in the crankcase.

2). Any larger nuisance particles will be collected by the full-flow oil filter. My old tractors only have bypass oil fitration, so only partial filtration and any agglomerated particles will settle to the sump and remain there for possibly years.

3). I always pump out the oil while hot and free-flowing.

4). I’ve never yet found solids in the sump of a modern engine - unless the engine was in need of a rebuild. Anything that will not go up the suction tube would likely be suspected already. Most dealerships do not remove sump plugs at service intervals. My 1987 Peugeot 205 was already fitted with a fitting, for suction tube insertion, to pump out the old oil.

I expect you do a sectional investigation of every used filter to check for any unwanted particles caught within?

You may not take any chances, but diesels are of far higher compression ratio than any petrol engine running on even 100 octane fuel. Neither our citroen 1.5l nor the Peugeot 2.2l engines have any provision for priming, as far as I know, unless the oil warning light switch were removed, for injection of oil. There are millions of similar engines running without worries of bearing damage at each routine service.

Your crankshaft is obviously a very expensive special. Does it have hardened journals? Almost certainly the block has been carefully line-bored, too. Most modern diesel engines have hardened crankshafts and more robust bearing shells than the more lightly built petrol equivalents and most, if looked after properly, will cover 250,000 miles or more unless there is some other failure. Unfortunately, I doubt many A series engines will go much more than 100,000 miles between overhauls.

RAB

[philthehill]

To me comparing an 'A' Series with a diesel engine is like comparing chalk and cheese as they are two totally different animals notwithstanding different engines.

Thank you for your input as regards tractor and car diesel engines lubricants and their servicing arrangements but if asked and having changed many oil filters on BMC engines and filters on other makes of commercial diesel engines whilst in the garage trade I would still advise that fitting a spin on filter conversion to an 'A' Series is a good idea.

The crankshaft fitted to my 1380cc engine is special and it does have hardened journals, it is also has cross drilled journals, wedged crankshaft webs, it runs in top quality bearings which are changed on a regular basis. The crankshaft and engine cost a lot of money to produce so I am going to pamper it.
Phil

[les]

I suppose it's a cleaner job to drain via the dipstick, not sure what gadgets are needed though, I think it must have started as a quick way for a garage to do it but all the while I'm fit enough to bend down, warm oil and a removed drain plug is my preferred option, with more chance of oil flow wiping the sump to a degree. After all what's the plug for!