more advice needed from those in the know please

[timetraveller]

advice appreciated please
my recently purchased traveller is running on 13 inch marina rims (5 inch wide ?)
it has had a conversion to marina rear leaf springs and it has a marina rear axle and a telescopic damper conversion front and back
sounds great on paper however the rear sits very high in the arches and is very close to the dampers with evidence of rubbing at some point
the front has been set up completely wrong with no bump stops and the arms turned on the splines to basically rid the car of any suspension
whatsoever at the front and the back is too stiff with the new marina leaf springs
i know how to get the car sitting correctly so i dont want any advice on that aspect please
the advice i need is i want to fit a set of 5.5x14 minilites with 165x60x14 tyres
can anyone see any issues before i purchase
i have opted for the 165 wide tyres to avoid tyre bulge which could rub the rear damper or the chassis leg at the front

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[RobThomas]

Yikes! Who stuck the rear dampers there????

Oh boy, where to start? That is likely, IMHO, to foul the tyres when the car is driven with any spirit. The more common version has the dampers angled inwards so they stick up near the bumhole of anyone sitting in the back seats. Again, not ideal, but a lot more clearance than you've got there. Got more pics of the brackets inside the chassis at the top and the bracket on the axle at the bottom. There seems to be some other brackets on the shell for control arms to the top of the axle casing. Missing? Also, there seems to be a plate missing from between the axle casing and the upper rubber mount that holds the U-bolts in place.

Lots of photos will help, as per the previous thread.

Rob

[timetraveller]

yes unfortunately this was a blind purchase so im trying to make the best of it
from experience i know the dampers are normally inboard and running from a plate under the U shackle
the front leaf spring hanger brackets have been recently added by the look of it to accomodate the new leaf springs which are also of unknown origin but possibly marina if they are a bit longer
it has a marina rear axle which looks to have brackets for anti tramp bars.....not likely to tramp with this sort of power...lol
the brackets on the underside of the body are the original spring hangers i think
im just trying to work my way through it to put it right.......

[philthehill]

The springs are not Marina/Ital. They appear to be Minor.
The brackets fitted to the axle and body are I would suggest part of an Owen Burton Marina to Minor axle conversion.
Fitting the Marina/Ital axle to a Minor was a popular conversion. I had a Marina/Ital rear axle fitted to my Ser 2.

[timetraveller]

The springs are not Marina/Ital. They appear to be Minor.
The brackets fitted to the axle and body are I would suggest part of an Owen Burton Marina to Minor axle conversion.
Fitting the Marina/Ital axle to a Minor was a popular conversion. I had a Marina/Ital rear axle fitted to my Ser 2.

makes sense i suppose...brackets for angled location bars to stop sideways movement maybe??
any explanation about the damper location ??

[pgp001]

Those front spring mounting brackets look to be mounted on the floor a good bit forwards of the original ones.
If the springs are longer and it still uses the same shackles at the back, then surely the whole axle will be further forwards by half the amount they are longer. ??
Or am I missing something obvious.
Phil

[philthehill]

The springs are mounted in the original rear spring front mounts as standard.
The bare brackets are not the original spring mounts but are the front traction bars mounts.
When the Marina axle is fitted the axle spring mounts have to be modified. All described in the Marina to Minor booklet available from ESM.
Using the search facility there are various references to the Owen Burton Marina rear axle conversion and the fitment of the Owen Burton traction bars.
There was a Marina rear axle casing with the Owen burton traction bar mounts for sale on here some time ago.

https://www.morrisminors.co.uk/classicsystem.php

The traction bar option could be obtained for both Minor and Marina axles.

[les]

With all those dubious modifications it would be an idea to compare a standard traveller to yours, to see exactly what you have that is standard, including positioning of any brackets you're unsure of. That is, of course if you know someone who owns a similar car. I would imagine 165 tyres and those rear dampers would not be a good idea. However I realise you now need to make the best of it, so good luck.
Time travel would be a handy thing, if you get my drift!

[RobThomas]

On the plus side, up one spline on the front, remove 2 bottom leaves from the spring, use a Minor bottom plate on the rear axle and fit the original dampers. That'll get you most of the way there.

[philthehill]

Rob
The Minor bottom spring plate cannot be used with the Marina axle as the diameter of the Marina axle tube is larger requiring the use of Marina 'U' bolts and suitable bottom plate.
As regards the Marina axle fitted to my Ser 2 the previous owner who did the conversion got around the problem of lever arm damper mountings, different axle diameters and different bottom plates by having the vertical damper mounting part of the Minor bottom spring plate welded to a suitable bottom plate.
Phil

[IslipMinor]

At the rear I would start with removing just the bottom leaf, and see if that gives you the ride you are looking for. With our 1958 car, the original rear springs are also 7-leaf, but slightly thinner leaves (7/32") than on a Traveller (?1/4"), and nearly 50 years ago we took the bottom, smallest leaf, and placed it upside down on the top of the other 6 leaves. The result is about 2" lower than standard, and a softer ride.

We have Koni adjustable oil telescopic dampers all round, with the fronts set on 'full hard' and the rears on 'full soft'. The ride is firm, but never harsh.

Rear axle tramp is a real issue on standard Minors, especially the 1098 engined cars with the 5-leaf rear springs, which is why a common modification 'in period' was to fit anti-tramp bars.

We have 5.5" wide wheels, but 13" diameter and fitted with 185/70x13 tyres, and they need most of the clearance between the inside of the tyre and the wheel arch at the rear that is available, without having a damper occupying the same space! On full bump, they can just catch the return lip on the rear wing, but with 165 wide tyres that should not be a problem.

I would definitely look at fitting a different rear damper setup, which would put the dampers inboard of the springs, and angled towards the centre of the car, much as the standard Marina had - ESM have 2 offerings. Angling the rear dampers may not be the perfect solution, but from the experience of ours, it works very well indeed!

[RobThomas]

Phil, I'd forgotten that the Marina was a thicker tube. Doh! Might be possible to redrill the Minor bottom plate to accommodate the Marina bolt pattern?

[Sleeper]

Rob,Phil.

or you could..

2017_1110back=axle0001.JPG (350.47 KiB) Viewed 2149 times

as with my Escort axle...

John

[philthehill]

Sleeper
Interesting solution especially as Marina axle 'U' bolts appear hard to come by.
Phil

[timetraveller]

managed to get a bit of time to delve into the mire
on level ground the car measures differently on each corner
the front is obviously one spline out to the other side so i can sort that easily
the back end has new leaf springs which are really stiff (7 leaves)
but the biggest concern and something i have never come across is the drivers side sits 55mm higher than the passenger side
one noticeable thing was there wasnt a bump stop on the drivers side (i will remedy this and they are on order)
would the absence of a bump stop not allow the springs to settle naturally over time ?? or is it something else ??
playing around slightly and putting the bottom 2 leaves on the top upside down brought it down to 30mm but obviously its not right like this
any ideas anyone ?????

[timetraveller]

The springs are mounted in the original rear spring front mounts as standard.
The bare brackets are not the original spring mounts but are the front traction bars mounts.
When the Marina axle is fitted the axle spring mounts have to be modified. All described in the Marina to Minor booklet available from ESM.
Using the search facility there are various references to the Owen Burton Marina rear axle conversion and the fitment of the Owen Burton traction bars.
There was a Marina rear axle casing with the Owen burton traction bar mounts for sale on here some time ago.

https://www.morrisminors.co.uk/classicsystem.php

The traction bar option could be obtained for both Minor and Marina axles.

ive had a good look underneath today phil and thats exactly what this conversion is,the a frame arms are missing for whatever reason
upright outboard dampers onto pins on the axle

[callyspoy]

I know it will sound super basic, but have you slackened the spring mount nuts and bolts? Front and rear, including shackles? Could be that one side was tightened up (before your ownership) when it was in the air so sits higher?
Just a thought