Engine in bits for a rebore-anything else worth doing?

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philthehill
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Re: Engine in bits for a rebore-anything else worth doing?

Post by philthehill »

There are no spacers/shims for the camshaft.
Adjustment of the camshaft end-float is obtained by either machining off the rear thrust face of the Camshaft gear or adjusting the thickness of the camshaft retaining plate.

As regards camshafts:-

Billet camshafts are best but expensive. I only use billet camshafts.

Reground camshafts are limited by the original profile - to get higher lift the back of the lobe is ground away which induces quicker acceleration of the valve train which can lead to quicker wear.
It is always good to see a lift profile graph as well as reading the spec of the camshaft.

The lift of a camshaft can be determined by measuring across the lobe and deducting that from measurements taken from the back of the lobe to the tip.

A elastic band is fitted over the two internal jaws (top) so that the external jaws follow the cam profile which makes reading the measurement much easier.
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As regards reducing the thickness of the crankshaft thrusts - it is better if the thrust face is reduced as you need to keep the strength of the backing metal in place - but if only a couple of thou needs to be remove that would be ok.

I usually keep a few used thrust washers available for use as they are usually worn to in-between thicknesses compared to new thrusts.

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ndevans
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Re: Engine in bits for a rebore-anything else worth doing?

Post by ndevans »

I have used 1000 grit Emery & WD40 to remove about 0.001" from the face of a top and bottom 0.005" oversize thrust washer, and with a standard thrust washer on the other side, I now have endfloat of 0.004". With two standard thrust washers I had endfloat of 0.008".
So, next question-which side of the centre main bearing should I put the standard (i.e. thinner) thrust washer? Or does it matter, as long as the two halves on each side are the same?

Cheers N
cheers N

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33063, Eridge, Sept 2021 by Neil Evans, on Flickr
'69 Traveller, 1275, discs.
philthehill
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Re: Engine in bits for a rebore-anything else worth doing?

Post by philthehill »

It does not matter which side the reduced thrust washers are fitted so long as they are both the same thickness top and bottom.

Saying that I would suggest that you put the thicker thrust bearings to the rear as it is the rear thrust bearings that take the most load especially when you depress the clutch.

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ndevans
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Re: Engine in bits for a rebore-anything else worth doing?

Post by ndevans »

Haven't managed to spend much time on it this week, but I've got the crankshaft and pistons back in and bolted up, but not fully.
I have 2 questions

1 is there any reason why I shouldn't put the head on and bolt it but not fully torque it, so that I can lift the engine and gearbox back into the car? I have an old head gasket that I can use temporarily, so I won't need to use the new one. Then when the engine is in, remove the head to fit the camshaft, valve train and timing gears, then refit the head.

2 is it ok to leave final torqueing up of the crankshaft and big end bolts until the engine is back in the car? Reason being that it's easier than with the engine out, because the engine is held firmly in the car, but it slides around when trying to tighten the bolts up on the floor on a piece of wood.

Cheers N
cheers N

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33063, Eridge, Sept 2021 by Neil Evans, on Flickr
'69 Traveller, 1275, discs.
philthehill
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Re: Engine in bits for a rebore-anything else worth doing?

Post by philthehill »

By all means loose fit the head to enable the engine to be fitted into the car.

Lay the engine on its side and torque the big ends and mains. Being on its side it will not slide everywhere.
Last edited by philthehill on Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

oliver90owner
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Re: Engine in bits for a rebore-anything else worth doing?

Post by oliver90owner »

ndevans wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:58 am ... I have 2 questions

1 is there any reason why I shouldn't put the head on and bolt it but not fully torque it, so that I can lift the engine and gearbox back into the car? I have an old head gasket that I can use temporarily, so I won't need to use the new one. Then when the engine is in, remove the head to fit the camshaft, valve train and timing gears, then refit the head.

2 is it ok to leave final torqueing up of the crankshaft and big end bolts until the engine is back in the car? Reason being that it's easier than with the engine out, because the engine is held firmly in the car, but it slides around when trying to tighten the bolts up on the floor on a piece of wood.
quote]

?????

I’ve never ever contemplated building an engine while fitted in the vehicle, if it is already on the bench in pieces. If you cannot manage the crank bearings, how are you going to manage the flywheel and clutch?

Won’t the cam followers present a problem? How will you know whether the crank turning resistance is satisfactory? Plastigauging bearings from underneath is so much harder than doing it on the bench!

A crazy idea IMO.

I used to clear one end of the kitchen table to rebuild my Ford engines, after Mum had gone to bed. I generally fitted the head after refitting the engine in the car because it was easier to lift it in (handraulically, single-handed, using ropes tied around the engine) but all the rest was built up on the table.
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ndevans
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Re: Engine in bits for a rebore-anything else worth doing?

Post by ndevans »

The crankshaft and pistons are already in, but not torqued up, so I'm not contemplating rebuilding the engine in the car, just final tightening of bolts and reassembly. I was just asking whether it's ok to put the head on temporarily, to get the engine back in, then I can complete torqueing and fitting the camshaft, followers etc and the rest of the gear train with the engine in the car. I find that easier than working on some wood on a pallet on the floor of the garage, which is all the space I've got at the moment.
I can't use the kitchen work surface, that's never going to be allowed, the engine is to heavy to lift up there, and I'm not clearing it away every night, then getting it all out again.
cheers N

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33063, Eridge, Sept 2021 by Neil Evans, on Flickr
'69 Traveller, 1275, discs.
philthehill
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Re: Engine in bits for a rebore-anything else worth doing?

Post by philthehill »

Unless you have a set of eight magnets to keep the cam followers in the block the cam followers have to be fitted with the engine out and upside down.

The cam is also best fitted when the engine is out and the front face of the block is uppermost. That allows the camshaft to be fitted with less possibility of damage to the cam bearings.

Dependent upon what oil pump is fitted it may be impossible to fit the camshaft especially with a spider drive oil pump.

You should be able to torque up all nuts/bolts with the engine on its side.

Even better if you have an engine build stand as you can turn the engine as required. I could not do without mine!
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ndevans
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Re: Engine in bits for a rebore-anything else worth doing?

Post by ndevans »

It's a spider drive oil pump, I've got the camshaft in and engaged, but not bolted in.
I'd love to have an engine stand, but I just don't have the room to store it when it's not in use.
cheers N

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33063, Eridge, Sept 2021 by Neil Evans, on Flickr
'69 Traveller, 1275, discs.
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Re: Engine in bits for a rebore-anything else worth doing?

Post by pgp001 »

These engine stands come to bits and can be stored in a lot less space, the pieces of my engine stand hang on hooks from the garage roof when not in use.

Phil
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ndevans
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Re: Engine in bits for a rebore-anything else worth doing?

Post by ndevans »

What make is it? I didn't realise they came apart.

Thanks,
Neil
cheers N

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33063, Eridge, Sept 2021 by Neil Evans, on Flickr
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philthehill
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Re: Engine in bits for a rebore-anything else worth doing?

Post by philthehill »

My engine stand is a Clarke item from Machine Mart

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/clarke- ... ine-stand/

They do come apart into:-

The upright.

The rear wheeled cross member.

The front extension with swivel wheel.

The engine mount plate with adjustable mount brackets.

When not in use I can tuck the above away nicely in odd corners.

Can be used for mounting and working on gearboxes and rear axles etc in fact anything that you want at a good working height.

There are several manufactures of adapter brackets for special purposes on 'e' bay.

I have put a support on the front leg of mine to support the front of the engine/engine block as if left too long on the stand the block can distort.
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The engine can be mounted at the rear the front or on the side of the block dependent upon what you want to do to the engine.

To get a better variable of mounting I have drilled additional holes in the adapter brackets.

There are other makes available but the Clarke engine stand has given me good service over many years.

Phil

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Re: Engine in bits for a rebore-anything else worth doing?

Post by liammonty »

If the engine's on a pallet, surely you can put a bar or something through the slats on either side of the pallet to prevent the engine from moving when you're doing bolts up? I rebuilt mine without an engine stand and it would have been immeasurably harder had I tried to do the job with the engine in the car!!! I wouldn't attempt that unless you haven't found the build enough of a challenge!!!
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Re: Engine in bits for a rebore-anything else worth doing?

Post by pgp001 »

I bought this special bracket to mount the complete engine and gearbox from the timing side.
You just have to put the oil filter housing back on once the bracket is removed.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-A-And-A ... 3452985650?
hash=item41ff1d5132:g:EHIAAOSw5cJarCrh

Phil
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Re: Engine in bits for a rebore-anything else worth doing?

Post by philthehill »

If you have the Marina pre 'A' Plus or a 'A' Plus engine you can mount the 1275cc engine on the Clarke engine stand using the engine mounting bolt holes as below without having to buy a adapter plate
Timing the cam 1.jpg
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I personally do not like leaving the engine mounted like above for long periods as it can lead to distortion of the block but mounting the engine like this is ideal for fitting and timing the cam which is the process being undertaken using a timing disc and two dial gauges.

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ndevans
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Re: Engine in bits for a rebore-anything else worth doing?

Post by ndevans »

liammonty wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:23 pm If the engine's on a pallet, surely you can put a bar or something through the slats on either side of the pallet to prevent the engine from moving when you're doing bolts up? I rebuilt mine without an engine stand and it would have been immeasurably harder had I tried to do the job with the engine in the car!!! I wouldn't attempt that unless you haven't found the build enough of a challenge!!!
Not easily, I don't have anything suitable to put through the slats.
Now I know I can dismantle them, I think I'll get a stand. Local Machine Mart has one.
cheers N

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33063, Eridge, Sept 2021 by Neil Evans, on Flickr
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ndevans
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Re: Engine in bits for a rebore-anything else worth doing?

Post by ndevans »

philthehill wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:17 pm If you have the Marina pre 'A' Plus or a 'A' Plus engine you can mount the 1275cc engine on the Clarke engine stand using the engine mounting bolt holes as below without having to buy a adapter plate

Timing the cam 1.jpg

I personally do not like leaving the engine mounted like above for long periods as it can lead to distortion of the block but mounting the engine like this is ideal for fitting and timing the cam which is the process being undertaken using a timing disc and two dial gauges.
What do you call "a long period"? I reckon I'll be another week before I'm done.

Cheers N
cheers N

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33063, Eridge, Sept 2021 by Neil Evans, on Flickr
'69 Traveller, 1275, discs.
philthehill
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Re: Engine in bits for a rebore-anything else worth doing?

Post by philthehill »

If only a week or two you will be ok.

I usually have an engine mounted on the engine stand being re-built in slow time which currently is a 948cc and that is where the additional support under the sump/block comes in handy - the engine stand mounting bolts fitted into the rear of the block then mainly act to steady the block with the main engine weight being carried by the additional support.

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Re: Engine in bits for a rebore-anything else worth doing?

Post by ndevans »

Ok, so I bought the next model up this morning, 450kg instead of 340kg, on the basis that it's got 4 wheels instead of 3, so might be a bit more stable.

Didn't realise you need line bolts to fix it! Looks like I need 5/16" UNF bolts to go into the block, but they need to be 90mm long to pass through the mounting plate adapter and go into the block a reasonable way. Also they are a lot thinner than the diameter of the aperture in the mounting plate adapter, and the head of a 5/16" bolt is only just too large.

What have you done to mount yours?

Cheers N
cheers N

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33063, Eridge, Sept 2021 by Neil Evans, on Flickr
'69 Traveller, 1275, discs.
philthehill
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Re: Engine in bits for a rebore-anything else worth doing?

Post by philthehill »

I have used 5/16" UNF studding cut to length which was obtained off 'e' bay.

Screw the studding all the way into the block for maximum hold. You may have to run a used 5/16" UNF tap down the hole to get to the bottom threads.

I have used qty 4 large thick manifold washers under the nut heads.

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