Suddenly ....no clutch and no ability to get in any gear

[ron77]

I pulled out of a parking lot and when I went to shift it into the next gear (depressing the clutch) there was... no second gear. In fact, I could put the car into all gears and all the engine would do is rev without any traction. I drifted to the side of the road. I tried to reverse - same thing - just reved and no movement. The clutch still depresses, but I don't seem to end up in any gear - almost as if a cable snapped. Any thoughts on this? Can't find anything close in troubleshooting clutch issues...

[simmitc]

Broken half-shaft. Get someone to look under the car whilst you put it in gear - is the prop shaft turning? If yes, then definitely the half-shaft has sheared. Do not keep the car in gear and do not tow the car as the end of the shaft will be grinding and making swarf that could damage the diff.

If it is the shaft, then ask for advice on changing. If the prop shaft is not tuurning then report back for further diagnosis.

[Dogsdad]

This post just beat my almost identical one.
Most likely half shaft.

R.M.

[ron77]

thanks - will have someone check and report back soon!

[don58van]

If you don't have another person to look under the car to see the prop-shaft turning, there is another method. Put it in gear with the engine running etc, just as if you were driving: does the speedo show speeds as if you were moving?
Don

[ron77]

Well - you guys win! Yes the prop shaft turns but the car goes nowhere and there is a swishing noise. I seem to be stuck; in the USA and the car in my garage here so may have to try this myself. Any first step suggestions? What parts do I need and what should I also be replacing at the same time?

Although I haven't tried this in a while, I must be able to source a half shaft here. I usually rely on Charles Ware but now that the car is in Massachusetts it's hard to. How do I figure out what one to order? How do I assume the diff is ok?

None of this is in my manual, unfortunately.....

[mobylette]

Workshop manual here:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AlGfsV8G702Fhbow6d2 ... w?e=fGgLch

[simmitc]

Assuming that this is not a very early car with the split rear axle, then you will need:

A halfshaft (or a pair, more in a moment)
2 x rear hub paper gasket
2 x rear hub rubber O-ring seal
1 x diff paper gasket
Degreaser
Paraffin
Hypoy 90 oil
Container for old oil
Key for oil drain plug (1098cc only) and oil filler plug
Assorted tools such as large cross head crsewdriver, sockets and spanners
suitable jack and axle stands to allow safe working under car.

If buying used halfshafts then you must fit them on the same side as they came out as they become handed in use. If buying new origional shafts (very rare) then they can fit either side and, assuming that only one is broken, then you won't need more than one new one.
Birmingham (David Manners) and ESM sell new toughended shafts. These have threaded retaining niuts and so are stamped LH and RH, and must be fitted on the correct side. Other parts suppliers probably have them available too. For normla road use, you do not need toughended shafts, but on the other hand, they should never break and will therefore avoid future problems. MOst suppliers will ship to the States.

Dependiong on what's been done in the past, and your personal poreference, you might need gasket remover solution, gasket scraper, and new gasket cement - should not be needed, but sometimes previous damage means that "goo" will help the new gaskets seal.

So much for what you need, it's a simple job and procedure will follow in due course unless someone else beats me to it.

[simmitc]

Degrease / clean axle area around diff and and diff casing.
Remove drain plug and empty old oil into container and dispose of properly. Note, drain plug present on 1098cc casing only.
Support car safely
Remove wheels and brake drums
Undo large crosshead screw retaining the halfshaft and extract both shafts - even if you find the broken one first time, you still need to remove the other in order to extravt the diff.
Disconnect propshaft from diff.
Undo all nuts around the edge oif the diff and extract the diff - don;t drop it!
You will see the broken end of one shaft stuck in the diff unit. Extract the broken bit and discard.
Thoroughkly clean the diff and inside of the axle casing with paraffin in order to remove all swarf.
Refit the derain plug and then diff using a new gasket (clean mating surfaces as required) Tighten the nuts evenly, a bit at a time, in a diagonal sequence.
Clean hub mating surfaces as necessary. Using new gaskets and O-=ring, insert the new shafts and wiggle so that the end engages with the diff; and then secure with the screw.
Refit brake drums and wheels.
Fill diff with new oil.
Reconnect propshaft - use new nylock nuts.
Check for correct operation, and no oil leaks.

Some people will say to mark the propshgaft and diff flange so that they go back together in the same place, but I've never had any problem in not doing that.

Hopefully that's everything you need, but others may have little tips or spot that I've missed something.

[philthehill]

If you resort to using a second hand/used half-shaft make sure that the replacement half-shaft came off the same side of the donor car as the broken half-shaft on your car otherwise it will not last long. Half-shafts do not like being un-wound. Half-shafts get set and wound up in the direction of loading.

[ampwhu]

If anyone is willing to donate a half shaft, I'm am flying to the US on 5th Oct. I could take it with me.

The poster may be able to collect it from me when I am in New York. I guess he is in Boston??

[ampwhu]

Forgot to say, gaskets and seals could be posted or purchased from a MG midget dealer in the US.

[DAVIDMCCULLOUGH]

This happened to me on the way to the Centenary Rally at Cornbury Park. We managed to get all the necessary bits at the autojumble and change it in the campsite, even bought axle stands and big hammer! The broken bit of half shaft need quite a lot of hammering to get it out of the diff as it had twisted on the splines.

Attached is a pic of the broken bit which a friend kept and then presented me with on a specailly made stand, it now lives in the sitting room!

[ron77]

Wow - that is a scary trophy!

But impressed everything was sourced at an autojumble.

Do any of the recommendations change if I mention that my car is a 1970 MM - a former Panda Car?

Thought I had a new diff at some point - but clearly not the half-shafts. I guess a pair makes sense. I'll do a search here in the states first.

I appreciate the NY delivery option. My sister lives in the city but not sure how she would welcome a car part on her doorstep. But who knows!

[ron77]

Wow - that is a scary trophy!

But impressed everything was sourced at an autojumble.

Do any of the recommendations change if I mention that my car is a 1970 MM - a former Panda Car?

Thought I had a new diff at some point - but clearly not the half-shafts. I guess a pair makes sense. I'll do a search here in the states first.

I appreciate the NY delivery option. My sister lives in the city but not sure how she would welcome a car part on her doorstep. But who knows!

[Declan_Burns]

Ron,
I have a good set of half-shafts as I replaced mine with the Charles Ware hardened shafts which are much cheaper than the competition shafts that ESM and David Manners sells. I could post them to USA but I would have to check the postage. I would think it would cost somewhere in the region of 50 to 60€ as they are heavy.
Regards
Declan

[IslipMinor]

Hardened or 'Competition EN24'?

The Minor is well-known for breaking halfshafts and stranding the owner as a result!

When we restored our Minor in the 90's, I fitted the 1380 engine and hardened halfshafts at the same time. These were absolutely fine and gave no problems UNTIL! Until I fitted a Tran-X plate type LSD. With the standard 'open' diff the RH rear wheel would spin all too easily on climbing RH turns, because the torque reaction on the rear axle tries to lift the RH wheel on take-off and acceleration. No tramp or anything (anti-tramp bars fitted), so no nasty loads on the rear axle or diff, but an LSD would soon sort that out wouldn't it?

On the first run after fitting the LSD, and within 200m from home, the RH toughened halfshaft had broken! 200m from home there is a crossroads, approached by a slight upward slope and a sharp 90° turn to the left (No Entry to the right). I stopped and started to turn left, when I heard a 'click', and the drive was like a slipping clutch. Managed to move slowly, turn round and get back home. The RH halfshaft had broken at the diff end, and the diff had to come apart to get the broken end out. The ability to 'drive' was mainly because there is a pre-load on the LSD clutch pack, but also that the broken end of the shaft had jammed in the diff housing and assisted the driving process. With the LSD, instead of spinning the unload LH wheel as it would have done before, so no problems, the LSD transferred the load on to the RH, increasing the load to a point that the halfshaft broke.

I fitted the EN24 half shafts from Peter May (almost £100 cheaper for a pair today than either David Manners or ESM), and have not broken a halfshaft since in more than 10 years and at least 40,000 miles, so although expensive, they do do the job. I did have the RH one 'chip', but it turned out that the original problem when the broken halfshaft had jammed in the diff casing, had distorted the casing, causing a misalignment. Replacement 1/2 diff casing and new halfshaft was the solution.

So, what to fit? The cost of the EN24 shafts has become very high, even from Peter May, and unless you have a modified 1275, then I would think that the 'hardened' shafts should be fine - axle tramp would be my main concern, especially with the 1098 engine and 5-leaf rear springs.

[ron77]

Thanks for all this - I'm thinking of getting a set of hardened shafts from Charles Ware assuming I can't source here in the US. This may be a spring job as I'm here in just the fall and spring and I could bring the shafts back with me on a flight (brought a new petrol tank that way before....!)

if there is anything particular to a Panda please let me know. Does it not make sense to renew the diff? (I don't really want to do that) but how will I know if it needs renewing too? (apart from thumping when I'm driving!

Ron

[simmitc]

In most respects, Pandas are just saloons with different colour paint. Modifications such as a hole in the roof, zipped headlining, alternator, etc won't make any difference to the diff. Once the diff is clean, examine the teethe for any sign of damage and rotate all bearings to check that they are smooth; but it is highly unlikely that a broken shaft will have caused ant damage as the break usually occurs where the splines start - notwithstandiong an earlier post Some backlash is inevitable, but should not be excessive, and there should be no significant play in any direction.

[ron77]

Great - thank you. Beginning the slow slog to get parts in place for the repair...!