Clattering noise

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12jslater
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Clattering noise

Postby 12jslater » Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:19 pm

Driving my 1951 Morris sidevalve today I went through a bit of water, deep but crawled through it and as soon as I sped up after I had passed through it my engine makes a metallic chattering noise on acceleration or load and a popping from the engine on over run, but still idles quietly as ever except the a pop every few seconds and once I get to speed and lift off the accelerator a bit all is normal.

It's been my daily driver without fault for six months now without a fault, she'd been off the road for 36 years, new manifold gasket, fluid changes, points, condenser, coil, carburetor clean out etc and no faults ran until today sweet as a nut.

I haven't a clue what it is?!

Murrayminor
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Re: Clattering noise

Postby Murrayminor » Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:16 am

I don't know the set up for the side valve air intake but I would remove the spark plugs and turn the engine over in case you have sucked some water into the combustion chamber.
Or check the belts, did you pick something up in the water causing your clattering.
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oliver90owner
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Re: Clattering noise

Postby oliver90owner » Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:06 am

We often don’t get any real detail of a fault or the facts leading to it. This may be another case of the same.

”I went through a bit of water, deep but crawled through”, may be the honest facts, but I drive through deep water (might flow over my shoe laces) quite often. I also may drive into it at a fair speed 4–50 mph. But that water may be just a narrow flow across the road, not a wide expanse of flood water over, say, 250mm deep and hit at 50 mph and which I would be very lucky to ‘crawl’ out the other side.

If you managed to ingest water into the engine, in sufficient quantity to exceed the combustion chamber volume, you may have one (or more) bent piston connecting rods. Unlikely, but possible depending on the actual details.

Wading is different than the above possible scenario, with deep water. A check on compression pressure may be enlightening if it is not simply a broken engine mount, or similar.

BTW, is it a ‘51 or’56 model? Your posts seem to be somewhat undecided on this.
Last edited by oliver90owner on Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:10 am, edited 2 times in total.

philthehill
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Re: Clattering noise

Postby philthehill » Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:08 am

I suspect a problem with the intake/exhaust manifolds. A sudden rush of cold water may have cracked the manifold.


myoldjalopy
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Re: Clattering noise

Postby myoldjalopy » Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:02 am

'oliver90owner': "BTW, is it a ‘51 or’56 model? Your posts seem to be somewhat undecided on this."
We must assume it is 1951 as OP says its a side-valve. If it really was 1956 it would be an OHV engine (I can't believe anyone would retro-fit a side-valve engine to a later car........but I suppose anything is possible! :roll: )
The main question has to be 'How deep was the water?' which may aid in diagnosis.

12jslater
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Re: Clattering noise

Postby 12jslater » Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:12 am

It's a 51, I had to ask to use my nephew's account to post as I currently don't have an account on here.

And the water was maybe 7 inches deep, I was in second as moving as slow as I could, I have always been worried when going through water so always crawl through.

It sounds like a bag of bolts when the accelerator is pressed. No nasty vibrations which is what I assumed I would get if I had indeed bent a rod.

myoldjalopy
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Re: Clattering noise

Postby myoldjalopy » Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:30 am

I'm wondering if water got inside the exhaust pipe? Maybe causing back-pressure.......could the head gasket have gone between two cylinders? That can sound like a clattering noise on acceleration.....

12jslater
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Re: Clattering noise

Postby 12jslater » Sun Nov 03, 2019 3:58 pm

myoldjalopy wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:30 am
I'm wondering if water got inside the exhaust pipe? Maybe causing back-pressure.......could the head gasket have gone between two cylinders? That can sound like a clattering noise on acceleration.....
Just took the head this afternoon, gasket is absolutely fine, put on a new one from the gasket set I have as I didn't want to reuse the old gasket, torqued up and makes the exact same noise.

I'm stumped

myoldjalopy
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Re: Clattering noise

Postby myoldjalopy » Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:51 pm

Are you sure the noise is definitely coming from the engine? Have you tried revving it from the carb inside the engine bay to try and pinpoint the noise?

Shropshiremoggie
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Re: Clattering noise

Postby Shropshiremoggie » Sun Nov 03, 2019 6:10 pm

Where abouts are you , maybe a local member could help in locating your problem .

12jslater
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Re: Clattering noise

Postby 12jslater » Sun Nov 03, 2019 6:27 pm

myoldjalopy wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:51 pm
Are you sure the noise is definitely coming from the engine? Have you tried revving it from the carb inside the engine bay to try and pinpoint the noise?
It makes the noise when I rev the engine in neutral but not as much, I've tried doing it from the carb to no avail, it's only at higher revvs or load whilst moving

Murrayminor
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Re: Clattering noise

Postby Murrayminor » Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:21 pm

Is it clattering or pinking?
Pinking usually occurs under load.
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12jslater
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Re: Clattering noise

Postby 12jslater » Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:25 pm

Murrayminor wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:21 pm
Is it clattering or pinking?
Pinking usually occurs under load.
Definitely clattering, it sounds like a tobacco tin full of bolts is on top of one of the pistons :lol:

oliver90owner
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Re: Clattering noise

Postby oliver90owner » Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:13 am

12jslater wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 3:58 pm

... Just took the head this afternoon, gasket is absolutely fine, put on a new one from the gasket set I have as I didn't want to reuse the old gasket, torqued up and makes the exact same noise. ...
Did you check the piston protrusion/recession while you had the head off?

Murrayminor
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Re: Clattering noise

Postby Murrayminor » Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:30 am

12jslater wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:25 pm
Murrayminor wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:21 pm
Is it clattering or pinking?
Pinking usually occurs under load.
Definitely clattering, it sounds like a tobacco tin full of bolts is on top of one of the pistons :lol:
Hmmm I'm intrigued as to what's causing the noise now.
Where are you based? Maybe someone could come listen whilst you drive or even video the event so we could all hear the noise.
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Shropshiremoggie
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Re: Clattering noise

Postby Shropshiremoggie » Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:55 pm

I did suggest earlier that another ‘ local ‘ club member maybe able to help !!!!

myoldjalopy
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Re: Clattering noise

Postby myoldjalopy » Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:49 pm

"It makes the noise when I rev the engine in neutral but not as much, I've tried doing it from the carb to no avail, it's only at higher revvs or load whilst moving."
If you can produce the noise using the accelerator, it should be possible to obtain the same engine revs via the carb throttle connection and thus the same noise.
And if it "sounds like a tobacco tin full of bolts is on top of one of the pistons" the crucial question is 'which piston?

mobylette
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Re: Clattering noise

Postby mobylette » Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:51 pm

Are you sure the thermal shock hasn't loosened the baffles in the silencer?

myoldjalopy
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Re: Clattering noise

Postby myoldjalopy » Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:52 pm

Yes, I too have been wondering about the exhaust as 7" of water might well affect it. But the OP says that it "sounds like a tobacco tin full of bolts is on top of one of the pistons". But we don't know if he has definitely pinpointed the noise to that specific area, or if its a bit of a guess.
I know my exhaust currently makes a horrible light clattering at certain revs which is obviously something loose in the silencer......
'12jslater' - try hitting the (cold) silencer with your fist and see if there is any noise from it.

geoberni
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Re: Clattering noise

Postby geoberni » Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:22 pm

I'm just amazed at anyone wanting to try taking their Moggie through the water in the first place.
Taking any vehicle through water that is deeper than the exhaust outlet is a risky business, it only has to stall and you risk sucking water back up into the engine....
In any flooded area where you don't know what's under the surface, i.e. an unfamiliar section of road, you could easily end up in a manhole that's lost it's cover.
:roll:
Whatever the eventual outcome of this topic is, let it be a lesson for everyone about driving in floodwater.

Let's hope it's not too bad...
Basil the 1955 series II

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