Removing the camshaft nut

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jagnut66
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Removing the camshaft nut

Postby jagnut66 » Sat May 02, 2020 3:53 pm

Hi,
If anyone has any suggestions / possible solutions to undo / remove the nut pictured below they will be gratefully received.
I want to fit a duplex kit but I have yet to get the damn thing to budge because it is so tight........
It is at present soaking in plusgas, however I not sure that will be the solution in this case, as it isn't rusted in place.
Also could you confirm the correct direction to undo this nut, red or blue arrow (I don't want to find I'm tightening it into the bargain! :lol: ).
As always thanks for any help given.
Best wishes,
Mike.
Timing nut.jpg
Timing nut.jpg (3.61 MiB) Viewed 682 times
Last edited by jagnut66 on Sat May 02, 2020 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1954 Series 2 on axle stands needing more welding......

kennatt
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Re: Removing this timing nut

Postby kennatt » Sat May 02, 2020 4:13 pm

standard thread ,red direction to loosen sometimes you need to shock it loose ie put socket on with longish bar and hit the end of the bar with a hammer.Make sure you have flattened the locking tab even a slight nib will hold it tight

philthehill
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Re: Removing this timing nut

Postby philthehill » Sat May 02, 2020 7:02 pm

As above move in red direction to undo.
It will be easier if you lock the flywheel.
When using a socket to undo this nut make sure that you use a socket with the concave removed. The nut is so thin that a normal socket with a concave is liable slip off the nut.
I personally would not use a hammer on the socket driver as you could damage the front camshaft bearing. Use a socket and breaker bar after locking the flywheel.
When fitting the duplex camshaft gear make sure that you have 0.003" - 0.007" end float.
Make sure that the two gears are aligned by adding or removing the shims from behind the crankshaft gear.
Tighten the nut to 65lbf ft.
When fitting the duplex you will need to use the flat oil thrower plate marked 'F' for Front.


jagnut66
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Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Postby jagnut66 » Sat May 02, 2020 8:35 pm

Hi,
I have now tried the 'shocking method' to no avail.
The flywheel is locked by the gearbox, as I have no other method of locking it, so I am not prepared to try this method any more (or harder) than I have, as I have no desire to damage anything.
This leaves me with one option, I will cut carefully through one side of the nut, just far enough to break it whilst avoiding cutting into the cog wheel or the cam thread it's wound onto, this will undermine it and break its hold on things, then I can tap it off, which shouldn't at that point require any great force.
I have a replacement nut on order.
Thanks for letting me know the torque setting Phil, saves me having to hunt for it. Also the 'F' for front, I was pondering which way was correct and I hadn't looked for something obvious like that, doh! :roll: :lol:
Best wishes,
Mike.
1954 Series 2 on axle stands needing more welding......

philthehill
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Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Postby philthehill » Sat May 02, 2020 9:43 pm

Using the gearbox to lock the engine is no good - the gearbox allows the engine and transmission to wind up against the spanner being used to undo the nut.
You do need to lock the flywheel which can be done by sliding out the starter motor and jamming the flywheel with a tyre lever/screw driver but better, safer and easier if you have the right tools i.e. flywheel locking tool. I use a modified Mini flywheel locking tool
Flywheel lock 1.JPG
Flywheel lock 1.JPG (1.45 MiB) Viewed 625 times
Flywheel lock 2.JPG
Flywheel lock 2.JPG (1.64 MiB) Viewed 625 times
and or a Sykes Pickavant special tool.
Flywheel locking tool.jpg
Flywheel locking tool.jpg (223.06 KiB) Viewed 625 times
If you cut the nut you risk allowing metal particles to enter the engine which may lead to engine damage.
My advice is not to do it unless you are completely stripping the engine and you will clean every component.


jagnut66
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Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Postby jagnut66 » Sun May 03, 2020 12:07 am

As you say screwdrivers and tyre levers have a limited effect, if they are any use at holding the flywheel at all.
I did wonder if there was a special tool for locking the flywheel in place but have never seen one before.
I have started looking and will continue but haven't seen anything like you have so far....
Best wishes,
Mike.
1954 Series 2 on axle stands needing more welding......

philthehill
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Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Postby philthehill » Sun May 03, 2020 8:19 am

This is a link to a flywheel locking tool similar to the one I use:-
http://www.minispares.com/product/Class ... o%20search

Only one bolt is required to hold the tool to the rear engine plate and flywheel starter ring so the tool will not require any effort to suit.
See my picture above for fitment application.

The Sykes Pickavant P386 flywheel locking tool is no longer available but you may find one on 'e' bay but not cheap.


kennatt
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Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Postby kennatt » Sun May 03, 2020 10:53 am

I know The shouts will come ,but if shocking on the end of the bar has failed. and you don't feel happy with locking the fly wheel,allthough easily done with decent long screwdriver,. get a cold chisel and once put on the flat of the nut at an angle pointing downwards give it a knock with the hammer it will shift, Will damage the nut but new one on way. I wish I had a fiver for every similar nut I had seen on the many engines I've opened up, over the years, that had more than one nut with the old chisel bites on it.
When I was serving my time in my uncles garage ,an old timer once bragged that he could take an engine to bits and put it back together again using a hammer a chisel ,and asked if I wanted to bet him a fiver that he couldn't' do it. The look on my uncles face prompted me not to take him up.
He then finished refitting a main bearing nut with a torque wrench ,picked up a hammer a chisel and did another with them, checked with the wrench and showed me the readings ,it was as near as would make any difference .
I later discovered that it was his party piece and all the other lads had been caught out by him. Anyway doesn't help your situation just a light diversion good luck .

alanworland
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Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Postby alanworland » Sun May 03, 2020 11:05 am

I've found the old impact gun really comes into its own on this sort of thing but make sure the (impact suitable) socket fits well.

Alan
Image

philthehill
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Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Postby philthehill » Sun May 03, 2020 11:09 am

I will be the first to shout - do the job properly and use the correct tools. Less damage to the engine, parts and most importantly yourself.
Below is the impact type 1/2" drive socket I use for removing the camshaft nut. Note that is has been ground flat so as to maximise the contact between socket and camshaft nut.
The impact type socket is quite shallow compared to a normal 1 5/16" AF socket and has only 6 sides.
Camshaft nut socket 1.JPG
Camshaft nut socket 1.JPG (1.33 MiB) Viewed 529 times
Camshaft nut socket 2.JPG
Camshaft nut socket 2.JPG (1.33 MiB) Viewed 529 times
Phil
Last edited by philthehill on Sun May 03, 2020 11:29 am, edited 4 times in total.


jagnut66
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Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Postby jagnut66 » Sun May 03, 2020 11:24 am

This is a link to a flywheel locking tool similar to the one I use:
Thanks Phil, I like the look of yours better but I'd already found and bought this (link below) before I saw your response.
I'd be interested to know what you think / if you know of anyone who's used something similar?
Glad of your link though, as if this proves unsatisfactory I now know where to find one.


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/flywheel-loc ... 2749.l2649
get a cold chisel and once put on the flat of the nut at an angle pointing downwards give it a knock with the hammer it will shift
Thanks Kennatt, as you said, a replacement nut is on the way. I've seen 'chiselled' nuts on Minors before and they're not something I'd want to leave in place but if necessary the existing nut will be 'sacrificed'..... :wink:
I've found the old impact gun really comes into its own
Unfortunately I don't have a compressor at present Alan.
I will be the first to shout
Noted Phil, the cold chisel will be the last option. I have already removed the concave section from my impact socket in readiness to try this first. Just waiting on the locking tool now. (I already have a cold chisel..... :wink: )

Best wishes,
Mike.
1954 Series 2 on axle stands needing more welding......

philthehill
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Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Postby philthehill » Sun May 03, 2020 11:32 am

That flywheel locking tool in the link should do the job nicely.

You cannot have too many tools :D
Phil


liammonty
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Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Postby liammonty » Sun May 03, 2020 12:21 pm

I’m with kennatt on this one. The nut could have been off in the time it’s taken to read all these posts! Sound engineering, perhaps not, but practical, yes. Assuming the camshaft front bearing doesn’t already have huge play, I’d be astonished if it were damaged by the force of a blow to the camshaft sprocket nut from a cold chisel. But each to their own! Re the impact driver, you can get quite decent electric ones now - useful in the absence of a compressor.

pgp001
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Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Postby pgp001 » Sun May 03, 2020 12:31 pm

So, on a slightly different note.

I am just putting my spare engine together and need to tighten up the camshaft nut.
Whilst the sump is off, my plan was to stick a block of wood or aluminium into the crankcase to prevent the crank rotating.

Any objections to that method ?

Phil

newagetraveller
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Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Postby newagetraveller » Sun May 03, 2020 1:33 pm

I would use a hammer and a cold chisel too.
Any damage to the nut can be smoothed down with a file.

philthehill
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Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Postby philthehill » Sun May 03, 2020 1:48 pm

pgp001.
Placing a piece of soft wood between the crankshaft web and the crankcase is a non damaging way of stopping the crankcase from rotating.
I would advise against placing the wood against a big end journal.

Phil


pgp001
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Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Postby pgp001 » Sun May 03, 2020 3:50 pm

I was thinking of jamming it against the first web on N° 1, that would mean the least amount of stress is put into the crank itself.
If the flywheel is held with a tool, the whole crank is taking the twisting moment when tightening the nut.

I will probably do the same for the starter dog bolt as well.

Phil

philthehill
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Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Postby philthehill » Sun May 03, 2020 4:07 pm

Putting the wood against web No: 1 is a good idea.

I think that you would have a very hard job to twist the crankshaft just doing up the camshaft nut with the locking tool holding the flywheel.

I have used the flywheel locking tool(s) over many years and have never experienced any problems.

Phil


pgp001
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Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Postby pgp001 » Sun May 03, 2020 4:45 pm

You are probably right, its just that I am more used to working on two bearing Austin 7 engines.

Phil

kennatt
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Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Postby kennatt » Mon May 04, 2020 9:26 am

Think you would have a hard job twisting a crank shaft by hand with anything :o :o


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