Brake judder.

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Owlsman
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Brake judder.

Post by Owlsman »

As per 'subject' really! Braking from 'around town' speeds of, say, 30/35 mph or less, the car's brakes are fine (a Sept '62 1098 cc, 4 door saloon) but much above that - and certainly from 40/50 mph +, there's a bit of of a judder when I apply the brakes.

The set-up is bog standard i.e. no servo or discs.

I'm suspecting....by that I mean, guessing that one/some of the drums is/are slightly out of true. Is that a feasible theory and if so, how do I find out which wheel(s) might be at fault? Any other possibilities?

This is something that has been an issue since I've had the car (nearly 2 years) so it hasn't just come on. I'm finally getting around to dealing with it as my confidence in the car has grown to the extent that I'm happy to put the pedal down a bit more and will be less afraid of dual carriageways or even motorways, when we can finally get going again. Having to brake from a (relatively) high speed would be a bit of a concern though.

I'm reminded of this problem, having spotted these for sale:- https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Morris-Minor ... Swnw5dmNNq

Are the front drums the same as the rears?

If I do end up buying new drums, is there any way of checking the quality of random suppliers or am I better is using one of the 'usual suspects' (ESM, CW etc)? Or are good used drums any good?

Thanks, as ever, for any helpful advice,
Alan
kennatt
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Re: Brake judder.

Post by kennatt »

have a look at the condition of the tie bar rubbers,they may have perished
philthehill
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Re: Brake judder.

Post by philthehill »

Do not be in any rush to buy anything - remove the drums and see if there is a serious amount of brake dust/crap in the drum.
Clean it all up and reassemble and road test.

ManyMinors
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Re: Brake judder.

Post by ManyMinors »

There is a lot of utter rubbish on the market in the way of new parts. It could be that your drums have been replaced at some stage with poor quality replacements. A few years ago I found that my brake shoes had become worn and bought new ones. Once fitted, I couldn't get decent adjustment and suspecting wear in the drums, I bought a new pair. However much I drove it, bedded the new linings in and re-adjusted the brakes, I couldn't get rid of a judder the car never had before :x
In the end, I purchased another set of shoes from a different source and re-fitted my original drums. The brakes have been fine ever since.

As Phil says, take the wheels and drums off and give everything a good check and clean-out. Refit the drums and adjust the brakes. See if you can detect any uneven-ness when you rotate the drums. Maybe take the car to a local garage to run it over their MOT brake tester? That should show an uneven brake up?
philthehill
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Re: Brake judder.

Post by philthehill »

You ask - Are the front brake drums the same as the rear?

The pre 1098cc Minors had 7" drums all round. 1098cc Minors had 8" fronts and 7" rears.

Make sure that the brake shoes have a nice bevel/slope on their leading edge.

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geoberni
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Re: Brake judder.

Post by geoberni »

It is possible for Drums to become slightly oval, but it's not exactly common. The only time I've ever heard of it, it was speculated that the driver had got the brakes quite hot for whatever reason and then parked up with the handbrake pulled tightly on.
The drums were definitely at fault as changing them cured the problem, but not the first thing I'd go for.

I'd certainly take everything apart and inspect first.
Basil the 1955 series II

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johngrigg
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Re: Brake judder.

Post by johngrigg »

Back in the day when both I and your Morris were young and all cars had drums it was certainly known for drums to go out of true and acommon cause of brake judder. If it was me I would take the drums to a brake specialist, get them checked ,and if necessary, and if they have enough meat, get them skimmed. Whatever you do and whatever it costs get them fixed, your life may depend on it!
Cheers JohnG
Owlsman
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Re: Brake judder.

Post by Owlsman »

Thanks very much for the advice/tips, gentlemen. I've done as suggested and been for a run.......but the judder is still there, unfortunately.

The tie bar rubbers are not exactly in their first flush of youth but are nowhere near 'shot' or perished. There was a bit of dust in each brake drum. I'm not knowledgeable enough to tell how much dust is too much but I would say that there was not an excessive amount by any means. In any event, the judder still persists :(

Obviously, when reassembling, I adjusted the brakes to the optimum setting and the car does stop very well indeed but with a slight judder that transmits itself via the steering wheel, when braking from about 40 mph+.

Anything else I can try before considering new drums and/or skimming the ones I've got?
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mobylette
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Re: Brake judder.

Post by mobylette »

You could check the wheels for balance and the condition of the tyres.
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Owlsman
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Re: Brake judder.

Post by Owlsman »

Thanks for that suggestion but they're a set of brand new Bridgestones with less than 250 miles on 'em and the wheels were balanced when fitted. The juddering was there on the old tyres as well.
kennatt
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Re: Brake judder.

Post by kennatt »

warped drums//// usually/// show through the brake pedal ie you can feel the pedal pushing back at your foot,if its just through the streering you need to have a close look round for play in the track rod ends,the eye bolt at the front of the torsion bar to chassis connection,the top arm from top trunnion to shocker,and the top and bottom trunnions,the latter being a bit difficult since the b est way to check them is to dismantle and examine the threads .If you can get a lever across the various components and push or pull it you may see movement. But it may well be drums or shoes sometimes difficult to find these faults.
Owlsman
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Re: Brake judder.

Post by Owlsman »

Apologies for the apparent tardy response to all your ideas and suggestions but ONLY TODAY has the brake judder finally been sorted.

Nothing more complicated than a pair of new front drums in the end......which to my VERY untrained eye is what I thought it would be all along.

My local friendly garage man thought so too when I first took it in. All the front suspension, tie bars etc etc were checked and all Ok so he had the drums skimmed by a specialist engineer but all that did was to 'transfer' the juddering from anything over 40mph to virtually anything under 30mph. In pottering about local driving then, the juddering was even more annoying!

The drums, after being skimmed, were found to be still slightly oval (one more so than the other) so 2 new drums were ordered from Tom Roy, Just picked the car up this afternoon and admittedly, after only a short drive home, everything brake-wise, seemed perfect.

Thank you all for your help and responses.
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