Noisy engine & lack of power at speed

[SteveClem]

Does that joke work in German as well?

[MorrisJohn]

A dyslexic man walks up to the bra...........

Haha.

[MorrisJohn]

A frustrating evening...

I took dizzy out and turned rotor arm 180 degrees in case I’d made a mistake. Wouldn’t fire up.

Slackened the bracket and changed to a couple of different angles. Wouldn’t fire up. There’s not even a hint of it wanting to fire up.

All the parts in the dizzy are nearly new known good. I’ve tried two condensers and two sets of points. The HT leads all look to be in the correct order. It fired up fine before the new dizzy went in.

I‘ve ordered an electronic conversion kit from accuspark. Hopefully that solves it.

As my timing will now be horribly out (maybe even 180 degrees), will I need to try and get it running on the points and set before converting to electronic...or can I just put the electronic module in and then go about trying to rectify the timing?

The timing marks (teeth) are missing from the car.

[oliver90owner]

Is the dizzy providing a spark? If not, the engine will never ever start - whatever angle you might be trying!

Trying to guess the correct setting is a good time waster - unless you know the timing is close (experience needed for that).

Was your ‘fellow Moggy enthusiast’ of no practical use?

[MorrisJohn]

Would I check if it’s sparking by turning engine over with the cap off? I’m going to check the insulating washer tomorrow morning, in case it’s shorting out.

My mate did come round and solder the spade connection I needed for the new dizzy (he’s currently mid Minor saloon restoration). I had thought that was all I’d need to get it going. He is willing to help. He’s a good knowledgeable guy. We both have various other commitments that get in the way though and I don’t like to inconvenience anyone.

If I can get it fired up and even driving rough there’s a classic mini specialist nearby that I’d probably take it to and just ask them to get the timing sorted. They said they’d do it.

I even considered just calling the RAC to get it going, since I have at home cover. I’d be hoping for an older RAC mechanic though.

[oliver90owner]

He should have crimped that spade terminal, not soldered it.

[pgp001]

Chances are the RAC would not be able to do anything with it.
I guess they will just transport it to a garage and let them fix it for you at your own expense.
I would be very surprised if they start taking it to bits on your own drive.

Phil

[MorrisJohn]

I shall work my way through this very good post on points installation. I have a volt meter, so I’ll recheck everything then check for power.

http://www.mgb-stuff.org.uk/points.htm

...and if I still can’t get it I’ll wait until my electronic module arrives.

Would it do any harm fitting the electronic module while the timing is potentially still significantly out? I did take photos of how the bracket sat on the old dizzy and tried to line the new one up visually the same. But then I might have it 180 degrees out, I can’t be sure. Steep learning curve.

[MorrisJohn]

This morning I rechecked the wiring of the low tension and condenser rings to the points and it’s all correct. I made sure the washers are in correctly fitted so it’s not grounding out.

Using a voltmeter I can see that the power is getting to there.

However, with ignition on and cracking the engine to turn it over the points (despite opening and closing) are not sparking.

[myoldjalopy]

Remove the king lead from the dizzy, wedge it so that the end of the lead is aprox 1/4" away from a metallic part of the engine, then open and close the points to see if there is a spark at the end of the lead. If yes, re-fit the lead and dizzy cap and see if all four plugs spark when the plug body is in contact with a metallic part of the engine and you crank the engine.
If you are getting good sparks and you think the dizzy may be 180 degrees out, then swap the plug leads around so they are opposite to what they are now (i.e. swap 1 and 3 and 2 and 4) and see if engine fires.

[simmitc]

The way to solve things like this is to be methodical. You've swapped from electronic ignition to points, now you're talking about fitting electronic whilst the timing is out. Try not to flit between things, trying "this and that". Let's stick with the points as they are simpler to test.

I note that you have a volt meter. Is it a multimeter with a resistance (ohms) measurement? If yes, then proceed as follows: Ignition off. Disconnect low tension wire from the side of the distributor. Connect one wire from the meter to the LT terminal on the dizzy (a small crocodile clip can be helpful) and the other wire form the meter to a good earthy point. Set the meter to say the 20K ohms scale. With the points closed, the meter should read zero, showing a connection to earth. With the points open, the meter should read 1, showing that there is no continuity. If it still reads zero then you have the insulating washers installed wrongly. If the meter reads correctly, then we can proceed to the next stage of testing. Good luck.

[MorrisJohn]

I’m afraid it’s just a basic battery/alternator test voltmeter. I never actually removed electronic ignition from it, when I got it it was running on points.

If I can get it a few miles down the road to a classic mini place (who’ve also done recent work on Moggies) I think I’ll leave it to a professional to sort out.

I don’t think it’s sparking anywhere and I’ve gone through all the connections (several times) and checked they are correct and shouldn’t ground.

I thought it would be a simple job following the workshop manual and I’ve obviously made a right pigs ear of it.

[myoldjalopy]

Are you sure the points gap is correct? If so, connect your voltmeter between the two LT terminals on the coil and turn the engine over with the crank handle - if the dizzy is working as it should, the reading will fluctuate between 12v and none as the points open and close.

[Murrayminor]

Where are you based? I'm sure there must be someone close by to offer some assistance to get you up and running.

[MorrisJohn]

Thanks gents. I’m in the Glasgow area. I decided to make use of my RAC cover. I explained what’s happened and they’re sending someone out.

At least the RAC man will have a resistance meter and hopefully be able to quickly tell me if it’s grounding somewhere...it really has to be something relatively simple. Surely?

Just hoping the RAC man is of a certain age/experience.

I’ll let you know how it goes...

[MorrisJohn]

The car is up and running again. I’d installed it all correctly, except for the bloody points gap...which was too big. I wasn’t 180 degrees out either.

I’ll get it to the mini place in the next few days for the electronic conversion and timing gun.

I’m hoping the new dizzy solves the initial problem (lack of power under load) as I changed it to rule out sticky advance weights or broken vacuum seal. I’m hopeful...

Thank you once again to everyone for your help so far.

[oliver90owner]

I decided to make use of my RAC cover

Personally, that made me cringe. Thinking of the possibility of using emergency breakdown support while there could be someone (even a whole family) broken down on the M8 or a lady stuck, on her own, on some isolated stretch of road awaiting recovery. Our emergency AA cover includes fix or ‘get you home’ for my wife’s car and roadside attention only for my mine.

I was right, then - dwell angle too great (or was it that the points weren’t even closing?)

[MorrisJohn]

I guess it depends on your point of view. I respect your opinion but I choose to pay extra for at home cover, which covers all our vehicles. If the RAC/AA etc weren’t happy to do non-emergency jobs then they wouldn’t market those services.

It’s a bit like saying the police shouldn’t investigate petty crimes because there are more serious ones to be dealt with.

Anyway. I don’t want to wander off topic.

You were right about the dwell angle and the points were far too wide. Strangely they widened again after being set by the RAC chap. He had two goes at it. I was relieved that he was an experienced patrolman.

She runs

[simmitc]

The breakdown services offer at home cover, I see nothing wrong in using what you have paid for

[myoldjalopy]

"it really has to be something relatively simple. Surely?"
You were right, John! What a relief........if you are sure you want to go electronic, then keep your new points dizzy in the boot in case the electric one fails. Of course, if the RAC man has got the car running sweet, there's an argument for leaving everything alone now. I'm sure you have learned a lot and can now set the points gap - as may be required ocassionally - in the future