Noisy engine & lack of power at speed

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philthehill
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Re: Noisy engine & lack of power at speed

Post by philthehill »

Re the hissing noise - the underside (nor outside) of the rocker cover is not pressurized so there should be no hissing of anything pressure wise escaping.

As regards the tappet noise - it may be that the rocker tips are pocketed and you setting them to 0.012" is in fact 0.020" plus.

This is the tool (or similar) you want for adjusting worn rocker tips:-

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Draper-S-P-Q ... Sw6NNfNToR

You will not be absolutely sure as to whether the thermostat is working correctly until you remove it and test as I described above.

Check the serviceability of the bypass hose as that may have a pin hole in it and the coollant is escaping with a hissing sound.

simmitc
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Re: Noisy engine & lack of power at speed

Post by simmitc »

1) Although it takes practice to do it quickly, the principle of a sliding fit feeler gauge used with a ring spanner and screwdriver shouldn't really allow you to make such a mess that you make it really bad. Is it definitely tappet/rocker noise that you are hearing?

2) I've not known a rocker cover gasket to hiss. There's no pressure there. It sounds as though the gasket may have been stuck to the head to keep it in shape whilst the cover was fitted. If the head is very hot then that might cause the goo stuff to bubble a little, but then that would be a seriously overheating engine. Your new cork one will at least rule out the old one as a cause (or confirm it). Make sure that you fully clean the head and cover mating surfaces before fitting the new gasket.

3) The rad sounds pretty good, and the stat seems to be opening. The questions is: at what temperature? Have you got any way to monitor the water temp? Water coming from the stat should be around 82 or 88 degrees C, depending on which stat has been fitted.

I'm still concerned by the noise that you describe.

Just to recap, has the car ever run correctly? If yes, then what was done immediately prior to the symptoms now being displayed?
MorrisJohn
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Re: Noisy engine & lack of power at speed

Post by MorrisJohn »

The car has only done around 3,000 miles since the engine was professionally reconditioned. I’ve only had it six weeks, but it was very well looked after by the previous owner. It’s a real credit to him (and to Charles Ware, who carried out the restoration work). It was barely used by the previous owner and it had been running fine up until June - when it was on the way for a service. He got it fully serviced etc for me before collection. And he having only driven it at lower speeds on local roads everything seemed fine to him (and yes I believe him, we’ve been taking regularly for months and he’s a really decent chap...he went above and beyond in doing other little things to the car for me out).

It was driving fine at lower speeds for me too. Until I adjusted the valve clearances, then it got tappetty. At my second go of doing it it got a little better. I noticed I’d made a right hash of valve 5, leaving it with far too big a gap.

I’ll have a third go tomorrow, and this time I’ll set the outlet valves to .015” and inlets to .012”. I’ve got a note of which are which and I’m using the rule of 9. If that doesn’t get it sounding nice again I’ll have to fall back on asking a more experienced friend to do it for me...but I don’t like to burden him as he’s got his own project on the go. Plus, if I don’t try I’ll never learn.

I don’t think there is anything seriously wrong. I think it’s just a combination of incorrect valve clearances (which I’ve inadvertently done while trying to fix something else) and incorrect timing...with possibly a fault with the advance weights in the existing dizzy.

After that I’ll get the dizzy replaced and hopefully get the lack of power issue solved.

I’ve attached a photo of the valves in case it helps. I don’t know if anyone can comment on their condition from the photo? They look good to my inexperienced eyes.
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A bad day with my Volksie still beats a good day at work!

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simmitc
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Re: Noisy engine & lack of power at speed

Post by simmitc »

It looks nice and clean. If reconditioned 3K miles ago then there shouldn't be any significant wear. Rule of 9 is a good way of doing it. There is another way that reduces the amount of turning required, but the 9 is so simple that it's not worth trying to remember anything else. You can double check the exhaust valves by seeing which ones line up with the ports on the manifold, and double check that the others line up with the inlets from the carb. That gasket does look a bit cooked.
oliver90owner
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Re: Noisy engine & lack of power at speed

Post by oliver90owner »

The effect of wrong clearances - no clearance will cause poor starting and soon destroy valves; too much and the valves will open later and close earlier, make a lot of mechanical noise with associated increased wear rates.

I would not expect power to be truly awful unless really wide. Although set at service intervals, there is clearly scope for change of adjustment between service intervals. Modern engines with overhead bucket cam followers do not get adjusted in perhaps 150k miles or more.

The contact breaker point setting is likely far more important for immediate engine running. If the dwell angle has been seriously reduced, the engine may well run poorly - specially if the plug leads are of too high a resistance. This is yet another area that may require checking out and optimising. Higher power electronic ignition modules can destroy cheap carbon filament plug leads.

3000 miles on a reconditioned dizzy should be nothing, in the way of wear. But was it recon’ed? Do check out the contact gap on all four cylinders if it is running on an old dizzy - I’ve seen seriously-worn cams before now.
liammonty
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Re: Noisy engine & lack of power at speed

Post by liammonty »

You said the car developed a misfire on the electronic ignition, and then you removed it and reverted to points, condenser etc., since when it’s sounded ‘clatty’ and you’ve had issues at speed. Does that mean the original symptoms changed when you replaced the electronic ignition module, or are they still the same?

As above, are you confident that the points gap is OK? That in itself will affect the timing. Everything needs to be set up right before adjusting the timing - you just need to go through everything methodically. I think the suspected overheating is likely a red herring as you are noticing how hot the rad gets where you’ve never worried about it before, and as also said before, I would be amazed if valve clearances were causing the troubles you describe.
pgp001
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Re: Noisy engine & lack of power at speed

Post by pgp001 »

If you have changed from elecctronic module back to points and condenser, and if it was done without removing or moving the distributor.
Then the timing is probably very retarded now.

I dont know how this works out with other makes, but certainly with the Accuspark fitted the distributor position has to be turned anticlockwise quite a way from the position it would be if points were fitted.

Are you setting the timing statically or with a strobe ?
I found that the 1098 strobe setting in the AKD530 manual to work pretty well as a starting point. That is 6° BTDC @ 600rpm

Phil
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Re: Noisy engine & lack of power at speed

Post by Chipper »

MorrisJohn wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:00 pm I’ve attached a photo of the valves in case it helps. I don’t know if anyone can comment on their condition from the photo? They look good to my inexperienced eyes.
The rocker assembly appears to me to be starved of oil, unless that is, you've cleaned them up prior to the photo?
Maurice, E. Kent
(1970 Traveller)
MorrisJohn
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Re: Noisy engine & lack of power at speed

Post by MorrisJohn »

I’ve never driven the car personally with the old electronic module on it, so I can’t really compare how it was then with now.

My ignition is definitely too advanced as it’s running on a little when switched off.

I readjusted my valve clearances this morning and I’ve got it sounding much better than yesterday, though certainly not perfect (still slightly tappetty). Perseverance.

I’m going to do a like-for-like distributor/vacuum swap once the engine is cold. Vacuum pipe checked and seems fine. If the advance weights are at fault then that will fix it. If not I’ll have ruled out a distributor problem.

Then the timing will need adjusted. Unfortunately I don’t have a strobe light yet. I have heard of people just adjusting it back and forth until they get the best idle if they don’t have a strobe? If I can get it running half decent I can take it a run to a chap who has a strobe to perfect it. Only the little teeth on the bottom pulley are missing, so it’ll be that little bit trickier.

As for the rocker cover and oil. The dipstick shows the correct level (maximum) and the oil hasn’t done many miles. I haven’t cleaned anything up.
A bad day with my Volksie still beats a good day at work!

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pgp001
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Re: Noisy engine & lack of power at speed

Post by pgp001 »

The strobe is OK to get you somewhere in the right ballpark, but it is not an exact science, running the car and fine tuning for best performance and economy will be slightly different on every car.

Mine was running on a bit because it was too retarded and it felt a bit gutless, I have just installed a fully rebuilt engine and gearbox and it was timed very quickly to get it running, but it certainly runs and pulls a lot better now at the 6° BTDC, I will be tweaking it a bit as I get it run in and see if I can improve it any more.
The strobe is very useful to do a check with once it is running as you want it, you can then make a note of the settings and easily put it back as it was if you change something.

Phil
MorrisJohn
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Re: Noisy engine & lack of power at speed

Post by MorrisJohn »

Right, new dizzy is installed but I haven’t finished connecting it yet as there is an ever so slight difference from the dizzy that came off - though both are 25Ds! Please see photos below. It’s stumped me. Maybe it’s because I gave my head a good bash on the bonnet :-?

My question is: should the brown wire from the coil be connected to the little external bit on the new dizzy using some type of push on connection? (I’m sure on the one I’ve just taken off it was connected at the same place the condenser wire goes. It doesn’t have that little external push on connector.)

Just some advice on how to connect the wires up in/on the dizzy correctly would be appreciated. That’d let me get the battery reconnected and hopefully start it up, get it running and see if it’s made a difference.
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A bad day with my Volksie still beats a good day at work!

https://www.glasgowmoggies.com
myoldjalopy
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Re: Noisy engine & lack of power at speed

Post by myoldjalopy »

Yes, the wire from the coil to the dizzy is connected to the spade connection. Sometimes this connection is of a different type but, in your case, you will need to fix a suitable sized 'female' connection to the end of your wire from the coil so it will push onto the tag snugly. It seems your old dizzy had lost the low tension connector part (you can see where it should go on your old dizzy, same place as where it is on your new one) and someone botched up the connection straight into the dizzy where the condensor lead tag goes.
MorrisJohn
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Re: Noisy engine & lack of power at speed

Post by MorrisJohn »

Perfect - thanks for that! A fellow Moggy enthusiast is going to drop round tomorrow morning with his electrical toolbox.
A bad day with my Volksie still beats a good day at work!

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MorrisJohn
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Re: Noisy engine & lack of power at speed

Post by MorrisJohn »

Okay, the new distributor is now fitted and in at roughly the same angle as the old one.

It’s all connected up and obviously I’ve done something incorrect because the engine will turn over and won’t fire up :-?

I used the condenser from the old dizzy because it was one of the better ones and virtually brand new, known good.

Going to sack it for the day before I start getting frustrated.
A bad day with my Volksie still beats a good day at work!

https://www.glasgowmoggies.com
myoldjalopy
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Re: Noisy engine & lack of power at speed

Post by myoldjalopy »

First, double-check the leads are connected in the right order - 1342 anti-clockwise - and all connections are good.
You may have to loosen the dizzy clamp and rotate the dizzy to and fro as you crank the engine to find the spot where she fires up.
Last edited by myoldjalopy on Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
pgp001
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Re: Noisy engine & lack of power at speed

Post by pgp001 »

Firing order should be 1342, a bit of keyboard dyslexia creeping in ? :D .

Phil
myoldjalopy
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Re: Noisy engine & lack of power at speed

Post by myoldjalopy »

Oops! Yeah, dyselxia - my bad! :(
Now corrected!
pgp001
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Re: Noisy engine & lack of power at speed

Post by pgp001 »

dyselxia ?????

You have got it bad, sorry couldn't resist. :oops:

Phil
myoldjalopy
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Re: Noisy engine & lack of power at speed

Post by myoldjalopy »

My lame attempt at a joke, I'm afraid! :roll:
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Re: Noisy engine & lack of power at speed

Post by Nickol »

A dyslexic man walks up to the bra...........
Gott schütze mich vorm Sturm und Wind und Autos, die aus England sind.
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