Constantly flooding when trying to cold start

[oliver90owner]

I usually warm the plugs up with a hot air gun

I don’t. They are put on, or held over, the kitchen hob (if at home). A gas torch is used, if in the field.

[mowogg]

Just a thought. You said it was serviced in July. Have you checked the points gap? It's not unknown for new points to close up very quickly and it would make it harder to start.

[myoldjalopy]

Alice, as you have been successfully using the choke for months, its use is unlikely to be an issue now. And if the engine is flooding, fuel is getting through, so it may be - as others have suggested - an ignition issue. So the checking for a spark is the next logical step...'simmitc' has described the procedure well. There will either a nice, blue spark..........or not - either way, this will narrow down the field of investigation and help pinpoint a solution. It is almost certainly something simple. The vast majority of 'car not starting' scenarios are due to a simple fault in the ignition system.
I wouldn't bother with trying push or tow starts if you know the battery is good and the starter is spinning the engine briskly.

[Alice Minor]

Just to finally rule out the battery, can you charge it but then disconnect the charger and leave the car to stand for 12 hours. Then check the voltage with a meter and try the tests with the headlamps on and see if it still spins fast.

Once that's done and we know that the battery is OK (or not) then let's be sure that the ignition is working correctly - if there's no spark, then it won't start but will suck petrol through the carb. Make sure that there is no petrol around, remove the centre HT lead from the dizzy, leaving the other end connected to the coil. Wedge the loose end about 1/4 inch from the block or other good earth point. Get an assistant to turn the key. With the ignition on and engine spinning, is there a good bright spark between the end of the lead and the earth point?

Test and report back, these cars are renowned for their readiness to start, so there must be a reason why it's reluctant, and we will find it.

Hi there Simon

This is what I’ve tried this morning , jumped in Lucy, purposely left her choke in so she wouldn’t start and span her over, she seemed to turn over pretty fast , tried again and mid try I flicked the headlights on and instantly she went to turning over a lot slower , I let go of the key and counted to 20 with the headlights still on and tried again , she turned over even slower and got slower and slower until the battery was flat , even the headlights on the garage wall were dim , after turning the lights and ignition off I waited about 1 minute for the battery to regain some power ( read that in a book ) , I tried her again and she turned over but very very slow till nothing , have I done it the way you wanted me to ? , does it sound like the battery ? , btw I can’t find a battery receipt but I have found an entry in his journal that a battery was put on her approximately 5 yrs ago !!!

Alice x

[Alice Minor]

Just a thought. You said it was serviced in July. Have you checked the points gap? It's not unknown for new points to close up very quickly and it would make it harder to start.

Hiya

Yes I have checked the points gap , and yes I have had this problem while I’ve had it , earlier this year I hit a pothole and immediately afterwards she began to loose power and rolled to a stop , I tried to restart her but she just turned over , she was still cold as well as I’d only just pushed the choke in so thought that’s why she’d stopped so even pulled the choke back out and tried her but she still wouldn’t start , that’s actually one of the first things I thought of after flooding her , shame it wasn’t that simple

Alice x

[geoberni]

Alice
Two things.

Firstly, Your earlier comments about the battery do make me think the battery is on it's last legs, while batteries can last for several years, (for example the one in my Ford is approaching 10 years, but I know it's well past it's best) most only come with a 3 - 4 yr warranty and the terms are quite tight.

Second thing...
Your comment about hitting a pothole and coming to a halt has reminded me of problems we had.
We broke down twice on the A1 a few years back not long after we had brought Basil.
Basically Basil would grind to a halt after about 20 minutes driving.
Both times we were recovered to home by the RAC and both times they blamed the electronic ignition unit.

The first time when we got home, I could not reproduce the fault, Basil fired up perfectly. But I changed the electronics unit anyway.

The 2nd time, the fault was still there, he wouldn't start.
I tracked it down to a faulty, open circuit, Coil.
The connection I'm making here is that you basically said you

hit a pothole and immediately afterwards she began to loose power and rolled to a stop

Perhaps you've got a bad connection in the Coil, just as we did?

I don't recall you saying you have checked for spark, perhaps the coil is duff.

There are some on the forum that quote "It's never the Coil"... Trust me, these days it can easily be the Coil....

[Alice Minor]

Alice
Two things.

Firstly, Your earlier comments about the battery do make me think the battery is on it's last legs, while batteries can last for several years, (for example the one in my Ford is approaching 10 years, but I know it's well past it's best) most only come with a 3 - 4 yr warranty and the terms are quite tight.

Second thing...
Your comment about hitting a pothole and coming to a halt has reminded me of problems we had.
We broke down twice on the A1 a few years back not long after we had brought Basil.
Basically Basil would grind to a halt after about 20 minutes driving.
Both times we were recovered to home by the RAC and both times they blamed the electronic ignition unit.

The first time when we got home, I could not reproduce the fault, Basil fired up perfectly. But I changed the electronics unit anyway.

The 2nd time, the fault was still there, he wouldn't start.
I tracked it down to a faulty, open circuit, Coil.
The connection I'm making here is that you basically said you

hit a pothole and immediately afterwards she began to loose power and rolled to a stop

Perhaps you've got a bad connection in the Coil, just as we did?

I don't recall you saying you have checked for spark, perhaps the coil is duff.

There are some on the forum that quote "It's never the Coil"... Trust me, these days it can easily be the Coil....

Morning

Well after what I tried yesterday morning with the headlights etc I’ve recharged the battery for the last 20 hrs plus so I’m gonna have 1 final attempt at starting her properly using the choke , if she doesn’t start I’m gonna try taking the battery off my Nissan duke and putting it on Lucy and see if that works, after that I’ll look closer at the coil etc, I’m gonna start with the easiest things first

Wish me luck !!

Alice x

[philthehill]

I would not recommend taking the battery of your Nissan duke unless you can be sure that you will not loose all the computer settings.
If you did loose the computer settings then you would have to get someone in the reset the computer and have a problem doubled.

[Alice Minor]

I would not recommend taking the battery of your Nissan duke unless you can be sure that you will not loose all the computer settings.
If you did loose the computer settings then you would have to get someone in the reset the computer and have a problem doubled.

Hiya

Thx for that advice , would jump leads do the job or am I better actually having a battery on the car ?

Alice x

[philthehill]

Personally I would use a separate well charged battery for starting the Minor.

[geoberni]

Personally, I'd find out if there is any Spark before going further along the Battery route.
It's a darn sight quicker check to do, around 30 seconds....

[Alice Minor]

Personally, I'd find out if there is any Spark before going further along the Battery route.
It's a darn sight quicker check to do, around 30 seconds....

Hi

Well I gave it a good go at trying to get her to start , zero choke, 1/4 , 1/2 , 3/4 and full , 2 try’s at each setting and not even a splutter out of her , that was about 10am, I’ve just checked she has a spark , nice and bright blue , so are we back to the battery scenario and try another battery ??

Alice x

[myoldjalopy]

Assuming you have a good spark at the end of the lead from the coil to the dizzy, then check whether you have sparks at each plug by lying the plug so its body is in metallic contact with the engine and cranking the engine. Obviously the plugs need to still be connected to their leads. May be worth doing this one plug at a time in case you get the leads mixed up. Even easier, get a spark plug tester - something like this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Laser-2780-Ign ... DTHK5VP8BE
If no sparking at the plugs, but a spark at the main lead from coil to dizzy, prime suspects are rotor arm and dizzy cap. Check the cap for cracks, that the four metal segments are good and the carbon bush in the centre is good and moves freely in and out on the spring behind it.
You can test the rotor by removing the dizzy cap and holding the end of the lead from the coil with insulated pliers (so you don't get a shock!) about 1/4" from the the top of the brass on the rotor. There should be no spark. If there is, the rotor is faulty and shorting out.

[simmitc]

At 12:38 yesterday (Saturday) Alice posted the results of a test. Not quite in accordance with what I'd suggested, but close enough for me to conclude that a new battery is in order. Going flat after 20 seconds with the headlights on shows that there is no capacity to start the car. As Berni commented, a poor battery, when supplying power to the starter motor, won't have enough left to give a decent spark; and without a good spark, the car won't start.

There may still be other issues, but I suggest that until we have a good battery in place, everything else is going to be pointless speculation.

Alice, is the car +ve or -ve earth? There are different types of battery with the terminals in different places to suit different systems. Anything can be made to fit, but it's better to get the right type. Post a photo of the existing battery in the car and we can work out what type you need.

[philthehill]

Check that you have electrolyte in the battery. The electrolyte can evaporate over time. The electrolyte should be just above the battery plates.
Low or no electrolyte will give poor battery performance and can lead to plate failure.

[geoberni]

I would not recommend taking the battery of your Nissan duke unless you can be sure that you will not loose all the computer settings.
If you did loose the computer settings then you would have to get someone in the reset the computer and have a problem doubled.

Hiya

Thx for that advice , would jump leads do the job or am I better actually having a battery on the car ?

Alice x

Well jump leads from the Juke would be OK IMHO, so long as :
A) The Juke has a battery you can easily get to and connect to
B) You're confident that you know how to connect the Jump Leads
C) You know if your Moggie is +ve or -ve Earth and connect accordingly
D) keep the Juke running while connecting and trying to start. That way you have the Juke battery and Alternator providing power. The Moggie should spin over like it's on steroids!

Ideally, have someone in the Juke to keep the revs up while you connect and try to start the Moggie.
If you have the Juke idling when you connect the jump leads and there is a noticeable dip in revs/engine noise as it connects, that's a definite indicator your battery is really low.

[Alice Minor]

I would not recommend taking the battery of your Nissan duke unless you can be sure that you will not loose all the computer settings.
If you did loose the computer settings then you would have to get someone in the reset the computer and have a problem doubled.

Hiya

Thx for that advice , would jump leads do the job or am I better actually having a battery on the car ?

Alice x

Well jump leads from the Juke would be OK IMHO, so long as :
A) The Juke has a battery you can easily get to and connect to
B) You're confident that you know how to connect the Jump Leads
C) You know if your Moggie is +ve or -ve Earth and connect accordingly
D) keep the Juke running while connecting and trying to start. That way you have the Juke battery and Alternator providing power. The Moggie should spin over like it's on steroids!

Ideally, have someone in the Juke to keep the revs up while you connect and try to start the Moggie.
If you have the Juke idling when you connect the jump leads and there is a noticeable dip in revs/engine noise as it connects, that's a definite indicator your battery is really low.

Hiya

I posted a reply yesterday but can’t find it !!! , anyway, I purchased a heavy duty battery and after fitting it I gave it a go, I purposely left the choke in knowing she wouldn’t start as I wanted to see how fast she’d turn over, VERY fast is the answer and after approx 4 seconds she actually spluttered followed by a whine even though she hasn’t ran for 8 days , I was amazed so tried again , she spluttered and almost started so tried a 3rd time, she started but coughed, backfired and conked out so gave her half choke and after quite a lengthy 7 second turn of the key she started , was so glad to hear her engine chugging away again , just about to get up for work so let’s hope she starts ok this morning

Thx for all the help from everyone

Alice xxx

[Trickydicky]

Been watching this thread from afar and rather than add my thoughts the cause looks to have been identified, a bad battery. With this I have a couple of points to raise, it seems you use your car as your daily driver. Do you have a dynamo or an alternator fitted? It may be advisable if you have a dynamo to fit a alternator, purely so it charges the battery more efficiently. (Cue the “nothing wrong with a dynamo”) comments Plus you have now fitted a heavy duty battery which will take longer to charge.
What type of charger do you own? A more modern charger can test the battery and also be used to condition the battery rather than simply charge it.
With winter coming you will need to ensure the battery is kept in good condition.

[oliver90owner]

Plus you have now fitted a heavy duty battery which will take longer to charge.

Perhaps you could explain/expand on this, please? ‘Cos I disagree - unless discharged to a degree of capacity more than the lighter duty battery!

I, too, lost a posting yesterday morning (turned off computer too quickly as I was in a rush, I think) where I was asking if the spark check was with the starter motor operating.

The reasons being that the starter would cause a voltage drop, any poor battery/earth contacts would reduce the voltage at the coil, and firing voltage at the plugs (under compression and with an over-rich mixture) would need to be higher than needed for an air test.

All things that need to be considered/checked when carrying out simple checks. One can get by without a multimeter, but they are a very useful diagnostic tool.

[myoldjalopy]

I am glad that you have got 'Lucy' going again. Let us know if you have any more issues. She did seem to start with a bit of a struggle - a Minor in tip-top working condition should start more or less on the first cranking of the starter. I know you said she was serviced in July but, if it were me, I would treat her to a new set of new points and a condensor from Distributor Doctor (his stuff is quality), also check the plug condition and their gaps. But fingers crossed for happy motoring