Car not starting

[ManyMinors]

Looking under the bonnet (for stray sparking) while running the engine in complete darkness, can be quite revealing.

Agreed. If she COULD get it running

[geoberni]

That's exactly what WD40 (Water Dispersant 40) is for isn't it?

WD 40 is oil based, so will disperse water, but ...it's a mix of hydorcarbons, amongst other things.
So
A) It doesn't have low enough resistance to show up on a multimeter, but I'm not convinced about breaking down at Ignition Coil Voltage levels.
B) As a hydrocarbon, you'd be spraying the equivalent of fuel into and over the ignition system
C) it has a flash point of 47°C so well under the heat intensity of a spark
D) It stays wet for ages so will keep re-wetting surfaces
Need I say more...


Ignition sealant is a plastic like coating that is dry within a minute or so.

[Alice Minor]

Alice
I wonder it it could be a bit of damp in/on the Ign system allowing your 'Spark' to track away.

It's not very easy to buy these days as demand has dropped off a cliff with modern cars rarely having such problems, but years ago 'Damp Start' as opposed to 'Easy Start' was a very common thing to have in the boot.
There used to be many manufacturers, but the only ones that still seems to be available now are Carplan and Carlube.
Search online for 'Car Ignition Sealer'
You'll probably return lots of results for other 'car sprays' including the likes of 'Easy Start', 'WD40' etc, steer clear of them and make sure is a 'sealer' spray.
Carplan.JPGCarlube.jpg

It's not a permanent fix but it should help identify if you've got a problem with the Dissy Cap or the HT leads.
Either that or change the Dissy Cap, and if that doesn't fix it change the leads.

Hiya

I remember yrs ago mum had a Vauxhall viva , I also remember seeing a can of damp start , I remember sitting there as she tried and tried in the winter , covered in snow or stood out all night in the rain , 1 hand on what I now know is the choke and the other turning the key , it was never the best starter BUT when it wouldn’t start a good spray under the bonnet worked wonders , I’m gonna search for a ton of what you’ve suggested

Ohh btw just an update on what went on when Steph came over to try and start Lucy with a fully charged battery, once again she pulled the choke right out , and as she was trying her she very gently touched the gas , she started 3rd try but spluttered and conked out, every time after that she coughed and spluttered, even started on 3 occasions but just backfired and conked out , Steph adjusted the choke in and out to different settings but the further in she went with it the less responsive she was , she even tried twice with no choke at all which was a bit ambitious in late October , she was here trying for almost 15 minutes before the battery began to die so we left it and I put the battery on charge and she offered to call over this morning to have another try , if this doesn’t work I’ll look at other suggestions that you and others have suggested

The main thing is at least Steph has managed to get her to start , although only very briefly

Thx everyone

Alice x

[simmitc]

Can you check the radiator and make sure that the water level has not gone down - this could be caused by a head gasket failure and water leaking into the cylinders. I must stress that I think this very unlikely, and the ideal would be to do a compression check, but water in 1 or 2 cylinders could cause the problems - the car fires on 1 or 2 cylinders, but cannot keep going.

Moisture in the dizzy cap, a failing rotor arm, or possibly a blocked carb jet are more likely possibilities, oe indeed dirty fuel - we once had a car that stopped running shortly after filling up, and I found water mixed in with the fuel. When I approached the garage, they admitted that they had a problem with one of their tanks.

Can you take the dizzy cap off and wipe round the inside with clean dry cloth or paper towelling, replace the cap and then try starting again. If still no go, then we can move to checking the plugs. A methodical progression through possible faults will find the problem.

[myoldjalopy]

We seem to be going round in circles a bit here. The car doesn't want to start, but was running fine recently - so something has changed which is preventing it (probably something easy to rectify, once it has been identified). Alice tells us there is a bright blue spark at the end of the king lead, and it has been suggested that the problem could be something do do with the dizzy cap, rotor, leads or spark plugs. First thing I would do now is check for a good, blue spark at the end of each spark plug. Alice hasn't fiddled with the timing, so assuming the plugs all spark properly, then maybe it is a fuel issue......unless the spark plug leads have been mixed up somehow.

[oliver90owner]

unless the spark plug leads have been mixed up somehow.

Highly unlikely?

[myoldjalopy]

Yes, unlikely I agree, unless Alice has been tinkering with the car in her sleep - or gremlins had been messing about in her garage........just mentioning it in case.......as if it were that, then there's no point chasing down the fuel system route.

[gtt1951]

Try the Easy Start route - if it fires up then it isn't the electrics. No point in speculating - try something!

G.

[gtt1951]

If nothing was changed or tinkered with in the last couple of weeks then it is, most probably, down to damp and condensation given the very wet weather the country has been experiencing.
One course of action (after trying the Easy Start test) is to remove the distributor cap and wipe it out with a dry cloth.
DO NOT rub down the contact surfaces in the distributor or the rotor arm leading edge with anything abrasive.
As mentioned earlier by another colleague, try starting the car in the dark, with the bonnet up and see if there is any stray electric arcing from the dizzy and associated electrical parts.

Years ago, I had a Morris Ital 1700 Estate and this developed running problems - turned out the problem was a hair-line crack in the Bakelite distributor cap!

Lets get physically testing items and see where it leads us.

George.

[gtt1951]

Alice, in the meantime, get the battery on a Trickle Charger for a day - do you have such a device?

George.

[geoberni]

Years ago, I had a Morris Ital 1700 Estate and this developed running problems - turned out the problem was a hair-line crack in the Bakelite distributor cap!

A problem I had on more than one occasion back in the 70s/80s; hence why I suggested the ign sealer spray as a way to help isolate such an issue.

[liammonty]

Alice - you’re getting some good advice, but it’s all getting rather confusing. I know you say you had all ignition components replaced, but that doesn’t mean they are good as unfortunately there are a lot of poor quality components out there. As good ones are cheap to buy, and you aren’t in a position to diagnose if it is one component that isn’t working, I would replace all of them with known good from the Distributor Doctor (Google him). For less than £50 you will KNOW that all those components are good, and I think toulll find that it cures your staring issues. As ManyMinors has already said, Minors usually start brilliantly - I can leave mine parked outside in the damp in Dartmoor for months and months and it will ALWAYS start first time (without any Easy Start !!) even if the temperature’s below zero. So something’s not right with yours, and I’d put money on it being ignition related even though it’s all been replaced recently

[Alice Minor]

Alice - you’re getting some good advice, but it’s all getting rather confusing. I know you say you had all ignition components replaced, but that doesn’t mean they are good as unfortunately there are a lot of poor quality components out there. As good ones are cheap to buy, and you aren’t in a position to diagnose if it is one component that isn’t working, I would replace all of them with known good from the Distributor Doctor (Google him). For less than £50 you will KNOW that all those components are good, and I think toulll find that it cures your staring issues. As ManyMinors has already said, Minors usually start brilliantly - I can leave mine parked outside in the damp in Dartmoor for months and months and it will ALWAYS start first time (without any Easy Start !!) even if the temperature’s below zero. So something’s not right with yours, and I’d put money on it being ignition related even though it’s all been replaced recently

Hiya

This is to you and everybody else who has been helping and advising me what to do

Steph came over again the other day and had a final try at getting her started , I’d say she tried 15 times, maybe more and the best she could get her to do was start briefly then stall , she adjusted the choke etc but she wouldn’t start , anyway we lifted the bonnet and Steph mentioned her mam ran through 2 or 3 puddles of water and the car spluttered to a stop , turned out it was water on the distributor and leads so we started with the cap, after removing it we found moisture all over the inside , Steph said “ what’s that line “ turns out that line is a crack all the way across it on the inside but we can’t see anything on the outside, we dried it out and gave it a light spray of wd40 ( only thing we had on hand ) , after putting the cap back on Steph suggested trying to start her , she started 2nd try but was so lumpy she stalled , she tried again and she started , lumpy again and she was chugging really badly, Steph tried to rev her and she faded and stalled again , she tried again but just a few splutters , tried again and this time she only turned over then came the strong smell of petrol , I shouted stop I think she’s flooded , I’ve ordered a replacement dizzy cap to try just to see if it solves the issues , I also asked Steph how much choke she was using , she said “ fully out “, hopefully she’ll be fine with a new dizzy cap

Let me know what your opinions are please

Thx

Alice x

[geoberni]

HI Alice
Quite normal for a crack in a Dizzy Cap to only show on one side. Personally, I find it's usually the inside.
WD40 is not conductive for regular electrical supply purposes, but the HT Spark from the coil is in the region of 20-40,000 volts, so it may be a problem.
Lets see what the new Cap does.
I have a spare new Cap and Leads sealed up in a Ziplock Bag in the tool box, for just such emergencies.

[myoldjalopy]

If the cap is cracked or 'tracked' then it may well be the source of your troubles. As you have a new one ordered, let's see what that does. Do make sure that you fit the plug leads exactly as they are on the old one to retain the correct firing order or you will still have problems. Take a photo first might be a good idea, or change each plug lead one at a time to make sure.

[Socketset]

I take my hat off to you for using a Minor this time of year especially when you ve had a modern car ! There is a knack to understanding old cars as I ve found recently with another make . And I 'm just old enough to have had a Minor van direct from its first owner when it was only 10 years old .

I second the comment by Many Minors and have also found many components for older cars to be cheap but very poor quality. I would use Distributor Doctor as well. They should start and run well with little trouble .

Just 2 things - 1 ) Does it still have a dynamo? if so keep a check on the battery voltage . A cheap ( £15 ish ) digital multimeter from somewhere like Screwfix or Machinemart is very useful . You may need to charge it occasionally even when in use in winter. 2) Not sure if the brakes have been updated but unlike your Juke there is no warning light for low brake fluid level,nor a split circuit for safety so it's a good idea to check it regularly . Not the easiest thing on a Minor- see below

Did you have the car serviced by the garage your dad used? If so its worth asking them if they would show you how to check it

Good luck with the new distributor cap. You may find it easiest to put the new one on the distributor and only then swop the leads over one by one noting where the notch is that ensures the cap only fits in one place. As suggested take a photo showing which lead goes to which plug first. I learnt this the hard way.

Hope it's soon running well again

[Alice Minor]

I take my hat off to you for using a Minor this time of year especially when you ve had a modern car ! There is a knack to understanding old cars as I ve found recently with another make . And I 'm just old enough to have had a Minor van direct from its first owner when it was only 10 years old .

I second the comment by Many Minors and have also found many components for older cars to be cheap but very poor quality. I would use Distributor Doctor as well. They should start and run well with little trouble .

Just 2 things - 1 ) Does it still have a dynamo? if so keep a check on the battery voltage . A cheap ( £15 ish ) digital multimeter from somewhere like Screwfix or Machinemart is very useful . You may need to charge it occasionally even when in use in winter. 2) Not sure if the brakes have been updated but unlike your Juke there is no warning light for low brake fluid level,nor a split circuit for safety so it's a good idea to check it regularly . Not the easiest thing on a Minor- see below

Did you have the car serviced by the garage your dad used? If so its worth asking them if they would show you how to check it

Good luck with the new distributor cap. You may find it easiest to put the new one on the distributor and only then swop the leads over one by one noting where the notch is that ensures the cap only fits in one place. As suggested take a photo showing which lead goes to which plug first. I learnt this the hard way.

Hope it's soon running well again

Morning hun

Yes , coming into winter isn’t the best time to use a minor, try getting your hands on the key’s in November, when you’ve only been used to a modern car all electrics and turn the key to go , when I got the keys I’d never driven an old car , spent days and days trying to get her started , without any joy I may add , was only down to kind people on here that told me she had a “ CHOKE “ I did get her going , I’d take her out , park up for literally for an hour , come back and she wouldn’t start unless I used the choke , -3 degrees btw but as a novice it took some getting used to, I’m now 12 months on so quite a bit experience under my skirt , she had an alternator and NOT a Dynamo , dad had that done

When the dizzy cap comes I’m gonna give Steph a shout to help me , surly 2 heads are better than 1 , IF and when she’s running I’m gonna take her to the garage that serviced her , the very same garage that dad used and ask them to check things out that everyone on here has pointed out and see if I can watch how it’s done so I can check them myself, might have to buy myself a pair of work boots etc, better than turning up in a dress or skirt and 4” stilettos , don’t want to ruin my heels

I’ll keep you’d up to speed how we get on when the new dizzy cap comes

Thx hun

Alice x

[Alice Minor]

Morning guys

Well the new dizzy cap came yesterday so I gave Steph a shout and she came over , we marked new cap and old cap so we new where the leads had to go, made sure everything was clean and dry , Steph asked if she could start her, I said yeah , you’ve had more luck than I have, I stood at the rear with garage doors open fingers crossed , I could hear Steph turning ignition on and pulling the choke out , then she turned over but didn’t start, 2nd try was the same , she gave her a bit gas and tried again , she spluttered but still didn’t start , she tried again and she started , Steph tried to rev her and she died , she started her again and she was chugging, like a bop bop bop bop from the exhaust which very quickly got very slow and she stalled, Steph tried to restart her but she only turned over , I shouted sop , you’ve flooded her, the garage stank of petrol so we gave up and decided to have another try today, apart from the flooding mishap it looks like it’s solved the problem

Your thoughts are welcome

Alice x

[simmitc]

You've sort of started it, but it didn't keep going, but you declare that you've solved it. You should go into American politics

[myoldjalopy]

Its obviously still not right. It should start and run easily. Check there is enough oil in the carb dashpot - a lack of oil here will prevent the engine from revving up - and if that doesn't sort it, I would go back to the fact that the smell of petrol indicates there is fuel getting through and that you reported a good, blue spark from the king lead. So I would check for a spark at the plugs. You have a new dizzy so now the rotor or the plugs themselves are suspect - or possibly one or more of the plug leads.