Gold Seal Rebuild

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Bigrob
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Gold Seal Rebuild

Post by Bigrob »

Morning all

As I've mentioned before, I've recently acquired a 1970 Met Panda car and it has what I believe to be a Goldseal 1098 fitted.


As part of the restoration, I intend to sort the engine. It runs fine, but smokes a little.


The nature of goldseal engines is that they've already been reconditioned, but is there anyway to know what has been done and to what size/tolerance

I've attached a picture of the engine number

Cheers all
20210108_143144.jpg
20210108_143144.jpg (2.96 MiB) Viewed 1028 times
1968 Trafalgar Blue 2 door- Pig
1970 Met Police 2 door- Panda
oliver90owner
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Re: Gold Seal Rebuild

Post by oliver90owner »

First of all, is it top end or bottom end smoking.?

Absolutely pointless mending a good bottom end if it is only oil going down the valve guides.

Reconditioned (gold seal) engines would be rebored to the minimum size which returned the engine to a satisfactory specification.

Cranks could be replacement or reground. Take any of several guesses, perm all the possibilities (like doing the football pools) and you might realise it is pointless to expect any ‘standard’ situation.
Bigrob
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Re: Gold Seal Rebuild

Post by Bigrob »

oliver90owner wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:56 am First of all, is it top end or bottom end smoking.?
I'm not sure as I've not opened it up yet. The smoke goes grey when throttle is pressed and then stays grey at idle. It's tricky to tell with it being cold too.

Yeah I thought as much, I was unsure as to whether or not the re-grind/re-bore sizing was identifiable from the engine number
1968 Trafalgar Blue 2 door- Pig
1970 Met Police 2 door- Panda
oliver90owner
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Re: Gold Seal Rebuild

Post by oliver90owner »

Grey, not blue? Are you sure it is not just running rich?

What colour are the plugs after normal running?

What deposits are there on the plug bodies?

When was it last decoked?

Does it just smoke visibly, after idling for a short time, when the engine speed is increased?

How much engine oil does it consume?

What oil quality is being used?

Is the engine breathing system operating properly?

What is the engine oil pressure when the engine is at running temperature?

How quickly does the oil pressure rise and fall, at starts and stops?

Seems to me you are ‘jumping the gun’ on this one.

These are all checks before even thinking of ‘opening it up’.

What mileage has the car travelled? Or even on this replacement engine?

If it ain’t actually broken, don’t try to fix it. It may simply just need a good service.

As an edit: Are you intending to dismantle the clutch, gearbox and rear axle as well? They may well have been in service longer than that gold seal engine.
Bigrob
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Re: Gold Seal Rebuild

Post by Bigrob »

oliver90owner wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:03 pm
Seems to me you are ‘jumping the gun’ on this one.
If it ain’t actually broken, don’t try to fix it. It may simply just need a good service.

As an edit: Are you intending to dismantle the clutch, gearbox and rear axle as well? They may well have been in service longer than that gold seal engine.
Yeah I completely understand that. I've owned the car for 4 days, haven't even brought it home yet, so i am unsure what the detailed condition is.

The previous owner has told me it uses a little oil. And I know it's been in atleast 1 other car besides this one, so it's history is questionable at best.

As for the rest of the running gear, I have full intention of inspecting it all, as if these are all original then they stand to have potentially done 50k in the short time it spent as a Panda car!
1968 Trafalgar Blue 2 door- Pig
1970 Met Police 2 door- Panda
taupe
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Re: Gold Seal Rebuild

Post by taupe »

From MG Guru site...https://mgaguru.com/mgtech/engine/be100a.htm

A BMC Gold Seal Engine was a factory Reconditioned replacement engine (painted gold). There were also BMC Silver Seal engines (painted silver). Notice in the picture the sticker on side of the valve cover.

48G is a 'B' series Gold Seal recon unit. The 'A' series was 8G, and the 'C' series 68G. (All pre-1956 reconditioned engines were prefixed 8G). Below are pictures of a very early MGA 8G Gold Seal engine. The replacement number tag is placed low on the left side of the block, difficult location to see with engine in the car. Photos compliments of Barry Measom.
Gold Seal engine Gold Seal engine

The following is an excerpt from Practical Classics, February 1984, by Chris Graham. It refers to the engines then being supplied by Unipart.

Gold and Silver Seal engines differ in two ways. Gold Seal engines are (were) applicable to vehicles up to five years old and contain a higher percentage of new parts. Silver Seal engines apply to vehicles over five years old and the lower percentage of new parts in these engines reflects the much greater availability of fairly good used parts for these slightly older engines. The sole exception to the 'five year old' rule is the MGB for which Gold Seal units were available rather than Silver Seal.

The same standards of re-manufacture apply to both types of engine except that the Silver Seal specification does not include the water pump, thermostat and thermostat housing and sparking plugs, but does include the oil pump and filter and crankshaft pulley. The Gold Seal specification includes all of these items and both types of engine will have been very thoroughly over-hauled. This work consists of stripping and thoroughly cleaning all internal parts, followed by close examination for wear, hairline cracks etc. Cylinder heads are checked and tested for compression. Crankshafts and camshafts are measured, re-profiled or reground to the same tolerances as a new engine and balanced. The maximum amount of metal which will be removed is 0.020", and any part which cannot be reconditioned within this limit will be discarded and replaced, often by a brand new component. After assembly every engine is set up, balanced, and "run for thirty minutes under power" (according to Unipart) during which time it is subject to inspection and testing for oil pressure, power output, smoothness of running and noise levels.

Referring to the greater availability of used parts for slightly older engines and the lower percentage of new parts used in Silver Seal engines. This is not to say that Silver Seal engines are in any sense a second class product. The same standards apply to both types of engine but in achieving those standards several engines may be stripped to provide parts which are capable of being reconditioned for a Silver Seal engines whereas fewer engines are available from vehicles up to five years old. Unipart aims to offer the same high standard in Silver Seal replacement engines and gearboxes but to do so at a lower cost to the customer. Gold Seal engines come with a 12 month unlimited mileage warranty, with Silver Seal the limits are 12 months or 12,000 miles. Both warranties state that if replacement or repair of the unit becomes necessary due to a manufacturing or material defect the unit will be replaced free of charge and the "unexpected" (unused or not expired) part of the original warranty will then apply.

T
philthehill
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Re: Gold Seal Rebuild

Post by philthehill »

You could also purchase a 'Short' Gold/Silver engine which comprised the block, pistons, rods and crankshaft. Everything else was transferred from the old engine if serviceable.

Bigrob
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Re: Gold Seal Rebuild

Post by Bigrob »

taupe wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:30 pm From MG Guru site...https://mgaguru.com/mgtech/engine/be100a.htm

A BMC Gold Seal Engine was a factory Reconditioned replacement engine (painted gold). There were also BMC Silver Seal engines (painted silver). Notice in the picture the sticker on side of the valve cover.
T



Thanks Taupe, a great bit of information there I appreciate it.
philthehill wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:35 pm You could also purchase a 'Short' Gold/Silver engine which comprised the block, pistons, rods and crankshaft. Everything else was transferred from the old engine if serviceable.


I wasn't aware of this Phil, thank you. There is absolutely no sign of any gold anywhere on this engine so I wont know which it would have been.

Assuming the short block was more of a budget option?
1968 Trafalgar Blue 2 door- Pig
1970 Met Police 2 door- Panda
philthehill
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Re: Gold Seal Rebuild

Post by philthehill »

Way back (55 years ago now) I fitted a factory 948cc short engine to my A35 van over a weekend.
I cannot remember whether it was a Gold or Silver unit but it cut down the overall cost and made the job so much easier. :D

Bigrob
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Re: Gold Seal Rebuild

Post by Bigrob »

philthehill wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:14 pm Way back (55 years ago now) I fitted a factory 948cc short engine to my A35 van over a weekend.
I cannot remember whether it was a Gold or Silver unit but it cut down the overall cost and made the job so much easier. :D
I imagine it did Phil! I remember rebuilding a mini engine a few years back only to find I'd missed a crack in the bores. If an affordable 'factory' short engine was available it would have saved my bacon
1968 Trafalgar Blue 2 door- Pig
1970 Met Police 2 door- Panda
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