Sump gaskets

[les]

I’m thinking about replacing the sump gaskets and associated cork strips, has anyone recently done this and found the cork strips compress successfully without the need to trim them?

[philthehill]

Les
I have found that not all cork sump seals are the same length even if they are the same part number and I have had to trim the cork seals to suit the sump as advised re the Minor workshop manual.
https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/seal-sump ... soc=137831
I always well grease the cork gasket seal channels at the front and rear of the sump and well grease the cork seals themselves before fitting the cork gaskets to the sump and then offering up the sump with cork gaskets to the block. Trim to suit before fitting the seals to the sump.
I always grease the sump to block gaskets. It not only holds them in place but keeps the gaskets supple so giving a longer sealing life.
If fitting gaskets to a small block engine the large block plastic seal can be used if trimmed but I prefer to use the cork sump seals.
https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/seal-rear ... soc=417475
https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/oil-seal- ... soc=417476

[les]

Thanks for those tips Phil, I’m referring to the manual now, re corks being 1/8th above surface, and take your point they may vary in length. I’m then presuming the gaskets will then cover the top of the cork ends. I can’t see this detail clearly in the manual, although I expect it will be self explanatory during the procedure.

[philthehill]

Les
You are correct in that the sump to block gaskets are fitted first and then the slightly raised ends of the cork seals press against the end/underside of the sump gasket making it all oil tight.
Phil

[les]

It’s nice to have confirmation, thank you.

[les]

Update, cork seal set ordered from ESM arrived, the cork is much narrower than the channel in the sump, in fact it twists considerably when pushed in, in fact it won’t stay in place, and if greased will be even worse.
So ordered from Moss. However got the order off but had some slight doubt about the seals, was there one or two included. The description said Sump cork seal front and rear, so I assumed I’d get front and rear. I phoned for clarification and £3 for ONE. Very misleading. He said he’d cancel the order, so I could start again. I’m now hoping the fit is better.
Anyone know it the 1275 sump uses wider cork seals?

[philthehill]

Les
The cork seals for the 1275cc sump are 6.3mm wide by 9.5mm deep (cut length to suit) to fit the sump cork seal channel.

[les]

Thanks for the specific sizes Phil, I’ll have to check mine, I’m cleaning up a spare sump ready to use when I remove the existing one. It has crossed my mind this spare may be from a 1275, which might explain the loose fit.

[les]

More info on the sump cork seals.—- before I re ordered from Moss, in the hope that their corks were thicker, I thought I’d wait until a recently ordered complete gasket set arrived from ESM, on the off chance that the included corks were thicker than the ones in there sump only gasket set, that I received earlier. Lo and behold they were! Both gasket sets were for a minor, so I can’t understand why the first corks were about 1.5 mm thinner than the required 6.3 mm needed, apparently the same as the 1275. Oh well got there in the end. Checked and I was preparing a 1098 sump.

[brianspringall]

I have found the cork gaskets to be a problem to fit satisfactorily, even when I have fitted them well, they have started to weep after a few years. I now install the front seals from the MG Midget III Pt No TAM1171 to the front and rear ends of the 1098 sump. These fit without any problems and do not allow a weep after a while. If you need any cork seals I have several which are over from gasket sets.
I hope you are successful in reducing the oil drips from your Morris.

[philthehill]

If you fit the 1275cc plastic seals to the 1098cc sump thy will need to be trimmed. They do/should have a wire running through the centre of the seal so be careful when you cut.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-MG-Midge ... Sw~Q9gTO6m

[brianspringall]

I see Moss currently have TAM1171 on back order, (03/04/21). Several suppliers list them but their illustrations seem to show the cork versions, which seem expensive at around £5. So check that any TAM1171 you order are going to be of the 'rubber' type.

[philthehill]

Well they cannot be that expensive as the qty 4 neoprene seals available in my link posted above have now all gone and they were the genuine neoprene TAM1171.
Moss TAM1171 are on special order and are £6.25 plus the usual.
Marina sump seals are the same but here are a pair of Marina preformed cork seals:-
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Morris-Marin ... Sw3lRfjhbx

[les]

Brian thanks for your kind offer, the latest cork seals I have are a good fit so will go down that route I think. I don’t know what the narrow ones were for.

[brianspringall]

The TAM1171 'rubber' seals from the front of the Midget fitted my 1098 sumps at the front and rear, I have not needed to cut them down.
The TAM 1089 seals from the rear of the Midget sump are, indeed, too long for the 1098 Morris sump and would need to be trimmed down, something I would be inclined to avoid. So ensure you order the 'rubber' type of seals for the front of the Midget.

If you are committed to using the cork seals they do need to be a snug fit in the sump's groove and slightly too long, maybe around 3mm, so they expand as they are compressed, this makes fitting the sump a careful process to ensure everything stays nicely in place.

I have purchased cork seals that are curved which made fitting the sump much easier, however they did weep after a few years.

I have had my Traveller since 1987, the SII since 1997 and the Van for about 18 years, so I do prefer long term solutions.

As I mentioned, the TAM 1171 Seal, front of crankshaft to sump from Moss "Notes: Rubber type seal OE" are on Back Order.

Les, I've just seen your note, I hope your cork seals give you a few years of satisfactory service. Keep Well, Brian

[JOWETTJAVELIN]

You might want to consider using Wellseal on the gaskets. I have said it before but since the Rootes Group advocate its use on various jobs which I've had no further trouble with I can't praise it highly enough. It has completely eliminated oil and water leaks where before, with just a dry or greased gasket, they never sealed properly. I'll be making extensive use of it when I build my 948 soon. It's disappointing when a 'new' engine leaks oil.

[philthehill]

In my experience if you have to use a sealant on the gaskets of an 'A' Series them something is being done wrong or is wrong.
Any addition to an 'A' Series gasket should be limited to a smear of grease.

[JOWETTJAVELIN]

I beg to differ. Oil sealing technology was not good back when these cars were made. You are reliant on two little cork strips which are constantly being soaked from inside the sump. Using a product like Wellseal is not to be frowned upon - certain other products such as silicone sealant are to be avoided, and using anything on the rocker cover gasket for instance. The fact that Leyland improved the sump end seals as Brian said just shows how the technology moved on for the better.

[ampwhu]

I have the rubber seals from moss fitted to my 1275. I have the engine finally in the car but not running yet. They were a very good fit.

[oliver90owner]

I beg to differ

The only time I have needed to use anything, other than listed in the workshop manuals, has been where damage or degradation has occurred - of either the facing(s) or the gasket. That is my experience, so I am in agreement with PTH. Newer technologies may present a different case.

While Wellseal is a good product, it should not be required for this application. I regularly used it between engine parts, such as crankcase halves where no gasket was employed (ie metal-to-metal faces), and never ever experienced a leak. However it should simply not be needed for a sump gasket on an A series engine.

I’ve not refitted many such sump pans - but plenty on early Ford and Land Rover engines - and found the gaskets perfectly adequate, apart from the gaskets needing to be gently held in position when needing to be working underneath the vehicle.

I have one engine apart, at the present time, which requires a similar gasket material between the crankcase parts (precision machined faces without a gasket). I have procured the recommended (expensive) sealant because it might appear that other sealants are proscribed in the workshop manual. Otherwise, Wellseal would be my choice for that engine. Simply following the manufacturer’s instructions is usually more than adequate to get the job done properly.