She’s died!!

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Stanmo
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She’s died!!

Post by Stanmo »

Hello all. I need some help with my car. Last week took a good run and parked up for a few hours. On returning I turned the key and there was nothing. Two more attempts and she started and ran fine all the way home. Today tried again and she turned over started but died. Now again there is nothing when I turn the key. Using previous advice I checked battery which is good and then checked solenoid with wire from ignition connector to battery feed on top. She clicks fine. Next a large screwdriver across from the live to the rubber grommet covered connector to check starting motor. This test did nothing not even a spark??? Any advice really appreciated.
oliver90owner
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Re: She’s died!!

Post by oliver90owner »

Not sure what has actually died . Starter motor or engine? Could be starter motor brushes require replacing. Resorting to the starting handle is the workaround - until a repair/replacemnt is arranged - if it is just the starter motor that has failed
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Re: She’s died!!

Post by Stanmo »

Oliver90, the starter handle fired her up!! Next job look at starter motor replacement?
kennatt
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Re: She’s died!!

Post by kennatt »

before you buy a starter or even go any further,explain how you have checked the battery ,if with a meter what were the readings. Looks like starter motor but just to be sure.
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Re: She’s died!!

Post by Stanmo »

Hi Kennat
I used a multimeter, reading was 12.4, so plenty of kick left in there.
oliver90owner
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Re: She’s died!!

Post by oliver90owner »

That is not necessarily a good measure of battery condition. Both voltage at zero load and at a given heavy current draw is necessary to evaluate a lead/acid battery.

Today tried again and she turned over started but died” was what made me wonder what had actually gone wrong. That seemed to contradicted the original symptoms described.
Stanmo
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Re: She’s died!!

Post by Stanmo »

Hi Oliver90
The battery while running at 14+ so ok there. When I started her and she died it was my own error in not giving it enough throttle, I just lost her. When she wouldn’t start all ignition lights were on when key turned just nothing from under hood. As said she started with cranking and sounded fine. This morning after leaving overnight she started on the turn of the key! I’m at a loss, have checked all connections so maybe an intermittent starting motor?
don58van
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Re: She’s died!!

Post by don58van »

Could be a starter solenoid problem.

Don
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Monty-4
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Re: She’s died!!

Post by Monty-4 »

Could even be as simple as the starter motor jamming if some dirt has made its way onto the shaft. Just a "click" of the solenoid working when turning the key from under the bonnet. Starting on the handle or wiggling the little nub on the end of the starter motor usually fixes it.

Worth popping the starter out and giving it a good clean before getting one's wallet out. Same with the solenoid contacts.
68' 4-door Saloon, another 'Monty'.
jaekl
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Re: She’s died!!

Post by jaekl »

Could be a marginal engine earth or even the battery earth.
oliver90owner
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Re: She’s died!!

Post by oliver90owner »

Thanks for explaining the earlier contradictory report. I would suspect, as I said earlier, the starter motor brushes may be requiring replacement - they are a wearing item - although a brush could just be sticking in its holder.

Most seem to buy a new/service exchange these days, even if the fault is a minor one (pardon the pun).
Stanmo
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Re: She’s died!!

Post by Stanmo »

Thanks all for advice. I know it’s difficult to diagnose via email without seeing the patient. The solenoid is only a few months old and connectors were all cleaned up when this was changed. I think first steps as per Oliver90’s and Monty’s advice is to remove starter motor and check bushes and clean. I’m assuming this is a disconnect the battery, remove terminals and a few bolts too remove? Assuming again it just pulls out when free? Never removed one before but always eager to learn.
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geoberni
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Re: She’s died!!

Post by geoberni »

You can disconnect the battery if you wish, I personally wouldn't since the connection is dead unless you turn the key to operate the solenoid (or pull the Start on an early car), but then I'm an electrical background so know what I'm doing in that regard.
Assuming you have a standard set up, and not running something you haven't told us about, the brief info in the manual is all you need to examine the brushes, you might not even need to remove it from the car to do so, depending where the cover band nut & bolt are.
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Stanmo
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Re: She’s died!!

Post by Stanmo »

Cheers Geoberni, engine is a standard 1098 so I’ll take a look to see if the bushes can be accessed without removal.
don58van
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Re: She’s died!!

Post by don58van »

Trouble shooting needs to be conducted in the right order...
I would be checking whether volts are reaching the starter when the ignition switch is turned to the start position. You might need two people to do this -- one to operate the switch and one under the bonnet with the mulitmeter.

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oliver90owner
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Re: She’s died!!

Post by oliver90owner »

You might need two people to do this -- one to operate the switch and one under the bonnet with the mulitmeter.

It only needs doing once to avoid this. An insulated crocodile clip is cheap, flexible test lead wire is cheap and doubtless a suitable connector, to the multimeter in use, are marketed or can be . Making up one long lead is all that is required to be independent of a helper, for nearly all such testing situations. I actually use an extension lead with croc clips on both ends.
kennatt
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Re: She’s died!!

Post by kennatt »

it would pay to run a feed from solenoid ign terminal and touch other end to battery to by pass ign switch and see if the starter engages switches are known to be faulty,I would do this before pulling starter out.
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geoberni
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Re: She’s died!!

Post by geoberni »

kennatt wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:52 am it would pay to run a feed from solenoid ign terminal and touch other end to battery to by pass ign switch and see if the starter engages switches are known to be faulty,I would do this before pulling starter out.
OP stated:
Using previous advice I checked battery which is good and then checked solenoid with wire from ignition connector to battery feed on top. She clicks fine
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kennatt
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Re: She’s died!!

Post by kennatt »

:oops:
oliver90owner
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Re: She’s died!!

Post by oliver90owner »

Starter motor is definitely (as certain as certain can be) the problem.

Stanmo said in first post that jumping the solenoid contacts did not even get a spark. Solenoid is being powered when the key is operated and battery is OK, because the engine has since been started (per Stanmo @ Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:17 am.

It is unlikely the lead at the motor connection, unless it is nearly hanging off. The fault is open circuit and intermittent ( but nearly 100% fail). I might expect the starter to operate if the armature is turned by, say, half a revolution.

It could be the brush gear, or even the commutator I suppose. But inspection of the starter motor is required - or simply buy another (or borrow one from a friend).
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