Engine not starting from cold

[callevaerudite]

Hi All,
I had a problem starting Sarah's engine a week ago, she wouldn't start from cold even with choke.
RAC came out and very helpfully troubleshooted the issue, he told me it was either the engine was flooded or the accelarator cable had seized up (which it had and needed lubricating).
I started up the engine last week with no issues. However, today I have started up my engine and nothing. She just misfires even on full choke.
I will admit this is my first car, and I'm more electronically minded than mechanical however, I'm hesistant to go to the garage because I want too be able to fix it myself.
Any help would be amazing!

[myoldjalopy]

Well, following what the RAC man said and if he is right, if you have now lubricated the accelerator cable, then it is flooding. Maybe too much choke? Too much choke would result in the engine running 'lumpy', which might be what you mean by 'misfiring'. On the other hand, if it is truly misfiring, I would ask when was it last serviced - maybe the plugs need cleaning and re-gapping?

[geoberni]

Hi, having looked back at your introductory post, I'm hazarding a guess that you have little or no experience with the Carburettor/Choke era of car driving.
Such cars are individuals, and need their idiosyncrasies learning, particularly around the amount of choke used, relative to the ambient temperature. Some like a pump of the throttle, some don't.
My Basil for example, likes very little choke most of the time I start him, often only about half choke on a really cold day.

As myoldjalopy said, it's worth going over the electrics side of the operation, checking the plugs and points (if not electronic points equipped) for condition and correct gaps.
Then when it comes to starting, initially try with no choke and one or two pumps of the throttle. If she does start, or try to fire, pull the choke out a little, about 1/4 to 1/2 way.
It's trial and error, but I'd certainly not turn Sarah over much on full choke as that is sure fire way to flood her.

[callevaerudite]

You are correct but that is really valuable advice!
I will try and play around with what works for her seeing what will work! At least I know it's probably not full choke!
I appreciate all the help and advice and keep you posted! I enjoy learning about how to fix her.

[liammonty]

Great advice from geoberni - the only thing to add is that pumping the throttle on a Minor (which has an SU carburettor) before starting the engine doesn't actually make any difference, as the SU carburettor has no accelerator pump, unlike a Weber or similar fixed jet carb.

[geoberni]

Great advice from geoberni - the only thing to add is that pumping the throttle on a Minor (which has an SU carburettor) before starting the engine doesn't actually make any difference, as the SU carburettor has no accelerator pump, unlike a Weber or similar fixed jet carb.

See, even I'm learning still...

It was just something I'd always done in my 'youff' a long time ago.

[MCYorks]

It may be no coincidence that you're having problems now the weather has turned cold and damp. It's worth checking all the ignition leads are in good condition, and their end caps are sealing properly on the plugs, dizzy cap and coil. On a cold morning any condensation has an annoying habit finding the smallest gap or defect and shorting out the high voltage. At best causing a misfire or at worst preventing it starting all together. Hence the motorists once regular morning ritual of spraying WD40 on the plugs, coil & dizzy cap

If you do flood the engine, try pushing the choke full in and then crank the engine while holding the accelerator to the floor. This usually helps flush out the excess fuel.

As people have already said, every car is different. So it's probably just a case of learning what amount of choke your car prefers in various conditions. That said, they all have bad days occasionally
However, I've generally found Minors to be good starters when well maintained and correctly adjusted. My first Minor had a bog standard ignition system, but it still used to start first time, even when it was sat covered in snow all night

[callevaerudite]

So a little update!
Sarah was still not starting so rung RAC again. The same guy came out and told me that the spark plugs were black and said that it was either me pulling the choke out too much (which I'm putting as the verdict because someone might be guilty of that.. ) causing her too flood or it's something to do with the oil valve?
They wanted me to go to the garage to get it sorted but I'm going too see how she is tomorrow starting from cold with less of a choke. If not I'll be tinkering with her too sort her out if it's the oil valve!
She starts up fine now, so if anyone has a verdict I'd appreciate it.

[geoberni]

Well if you haven't done so, post the RAC visit, I'd take the plugs out, give them a good clean and check the gap.

[Myrtles Man]

Oil valve? I wonder if he was suggesting that oil may be making its way down the valve guides. Other than that thought it's not at all clear what point he was making.

[callevaerudite]

Oil valve? I wonder if he was suggesting that oil may be making its way down the valve guides. Other than that thought it's not at all clear what point he was making.

My thoughts exactly? He could well be as it was something to do with the spark plugs going black...

[callevaerudite]

Well if you haven't done so, post the RAC visit, I'd take the plugs out, give them a good clean and check the gap.

I hadn't thought of that but certainly will give them a clean and check the gap. Any advice on how to clean them?

[geoberni]

Personally, I give them a wipe with some paper towel or rag, if that makes no appreciable difference, which is usually the case with sooted up plugs, then an old tooth brush dipped in liquid like petrol, WD40, white spirit etc. Just to get the grime off so you can see the metal of the centre electrode.

A wire brush is not recommended as they can have strands break off and lodge down in the gap, thus shorting the plug gap. I suppose in theory they'd soon melt like a fuse with the HT voltage applied, but certainly not best practice when dealing with spark plugs.

[liammonty]

It sounds almost certain that the cause is too much choke causing the plugs to soot up. I doubt it's anything to do with oil - for that to be the case, the engine would have to be pretty knackered.

If all is set up well, you should only need full choke starting from totally cold. As soon as the engine starts up, you should be able to get the choke in about half way. If it makes a chugging sounds, that means the choke is out too far. And the longer that you run it with the choke out too far, the more likely the plugs will soot up.

You'll get the hang of it

[myoldjalopy]

The plugs were black. But were they black with oil, or black with soot? The RAC man has only given you half the story and he's hedging his bets too. Oil would indicate a problem with the engine - piston rings or some other wear. Soot however, as others mention, could well indicate too much choke. Of course, if the engine is generally running too rich, the plugs will also soot up. So clean up the plugs and check the gap, try starting with less choke and see how it goes......My car starts on pretty much full choke, then I immediately push the choke button in half-way before I set off and push it fully back in after 1/4 mile or so. Like 'liammonty' says, too much choke and the engine will start 'chugging' or running lumpy - what they call 'hunting'.

[kevin s]

I find on ours it always starts on half choke and then I adjust the choke to get the best idle, It does vary from car to car though so as said you need to experiment and find out what works best for you, I would start with 1/4 choke then pull it out slowly as you are cranking the engine.

Probably not bad idea to splash out on some new plugs and leads as well, the cold damp weather will highlight any weaknesses.

I have just spent 3 weeks with multi meters and scopes trying to sort out a poor start on our 80's efi Range Rover (turned out to be intermittent temperature sensor fault) With a little bit of time you will soon come to appreciate the simplicity of the minor!

One hint - if you are buying any parts but particularly ignition parts buy decent quality more expensive parts, there is vast amounts of rubbish out there which will quickly sour your old car experience, (I tend to use the distributor doctor for ignition parts now, they are not cheap but they do last a lot longer)

[oliver90owner]

however, I'm hesistant to go to the garage because I want too be able to fix it myself.
Any help would be amazing!

Here is my advice. If you want to fix it yourself, get reading up on how internal combustion engines work.

Older designs, such as these, require more ‘simple’ mechanical and electrical know-how. They require more regular servicing and replacement parts. There is nowhere to plug in a computer to read fault codes!

Unless your engine has been properly serviced, it may not start well - possibly even as good as it should, even when warm/hot.

Simple things like valve clearances, compression pressures, ignition system settings (points gap, dwell angle, timing, etc can each make the difference - apart from understanding the condition of the particular components (they all need adjustment and/or replacement on a regular basis) by careful observation and consideration of any possible faults arising.

Carburettor settings are another facet which needs to be understood with correct alterations made on results/measurements obtained. Air cleaners, any leaks into the system, etc can also make a difference to how the engine runs (or starts) - your engine may seem good, but is it as good as it should be?

Even in their heyday, car mechanics were employed as ‘specialists’ by many owners, for the regular maintenance on these cars. They were too complicated, for many owners, even back then! There are not so many ‘car mechanics’ around these days that service these cars for a living.

Your starting problem may well be operator error (too much choke applied for too long), but there may be other factors at work which may also need addressing.

[Myrtles Man]

Is there a car-maintenance course offered at your local adult education facility? If so I'd suggest that you enrol as you'll learn a great deal of invaluable information on the subject plus, you'll probably be able to work on your own car there from time to time.

[callevaerudite]

Is there a car-maintenance course offered at your local adult education facility? If so I'd suggest that you enrol as you'll learn a great deal of invaluable information on the subject plus, you'll probably be able to work on your own car there from time to time.

I believe there is and have looked into it.
Started Sarah this morning for a quick test drive and she ran fine. Needed to take her out just now and she started up for roughly 10 seconds and then stopped. I'm using between 1/4 - 1/2 choke (she didn't want to start without choke the 2nd time around)

[myoldjalopy]

You don't say whether you have cleaned the plugs and checked the plug gaps yet................