Floor & Sill Costs

Discuss Bodywork problems here.
Monty-4
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Floor & Sill Costs

Postby Monty-4 » Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:48 pm

Morris hivemind,

My Minor is getting to the point where the old "repairs" of the sills prior to my ownership need addressing to maintain safety and strength, as well as some areas of the front floor. The rear floor and spring hangars have been replaced within the last couple of years so it's a little bit of a patchwork.

I'm consulting some local classic specialists and they suggested it might be costly enough to justify sourcing an alternative shell and transferring any desired running gear and trim over.

Whilst I've been expecting this for a few years now and thought we might be looking at a larger four-figure bill (and have saved accordingly), that sounds a bit extreme to me?

Wondering if people have thoughts or experiences of similar dilemmas?
68' 4-door Saloon, another 'Monty'.

geoberni
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Re: Floor & Sill Costs

Postby geoberni » Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:01 pm

consulting some local classic specialists
But do they know Minors?
Some 'Classics' no doubt have Body shells available but any Minor shell is surely going to be worth saving in it's own right?
That's why there are such a great selection of floor parts available, there are no shells...
Basil the 1955 series II

Image

dudload
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Re: Floor & Sill Costs

Postby dudload » Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:46 pm

that sounds v v extreme to me. have a look in Minor Matters to see if anyone advertising in there is local to you. depending on the level / extensiveness of rust i'd be thinking about £4k max

Chief
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Re: Floor & Sill Costs

Postby Chief » Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:59 pm

I found out recently some phones fit perfectly in the holes under the kick plates to all you to take photos of what's inside the sills, maybe some photos would help others give you an idea of how bad it appears (forcing Flash to on really helps the rust show up).

Of course, if the holes under the car are big enough you could pop your phone up through them :P :wink: (actually I found a hole had formed in my own sills the other day - very dissapointing).

Minor59er
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Re: Floor & Sill Costs

Postby Minor59er » Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:27 pm

I am having some similar work done on my Morris and at the start, had almost the same comment made to me. Best source a replacement shell and transfer parts etc. It came as a bit of a surprise to me, so started to price my options and see if there were any better shells about.
End result new floor panels, sills etc being fitted to my old car. Work is progressing well with some extras being replaced at the same time. The cost is still less than the few alternative shells that were about at the time.
Also by doing it this way I will know a lot more of the history of the car than the alternative that was suggested.

kevin s
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Re: Floor & Sill Costs

Postby kevin s » Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:04 am

I would think you will be best off talking to someone who spends most of their time restoring minors, they do loads of this sort of repair every year and can give you a good assessment of what really needs doing. You could save a bit by stripping all the trim out and taking the wings off yourself as well. The other expensive part will be paint, if you are happy to just have the areas repaired locally touched in it won't be too bad but probably also won't be a perfect match, a full repaint could easily add another £3000.

ManyMinors
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Re: Floor & Sill Costs

Postby ManyMinors » Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:18 am

An "alternative shell" means purchasing a different car with a different identity. There are no new shells available, so you will be restoring a different car. Re-building a car from a shell (if you could find one) is still a big, expensive undertaking and unlikely to save you much money unless you are able to carry out a lot of work yourself? It may well be that simply purchasing a better car is more economic that restoring the one you have but it won't be your old car whichever way you do it. The availability of inexpensive repair panels makes a Minor one of the more straightforward classic cars to restore. A look through the many restoration threads on this forum shows what can be done and if somebody with good knowledge and capabilities undertakes the job to a good standard and everything is well treated against further rusting, your car will last for many many years. Rebuilding the underside completely won't be cheap. The cost will depend on just how extensively rusty your car is and therefore how much time is taken up, and how much the repairers hourly rate is. If you haven't done it already it would be worthwhile removing the sill rails and kick panels to properly survey the inner sill "boxing panels" along with the condition of the bottoms of the door pillars etc. A car with a lot of previous welding repairs will always be more time consuming to repair than one which has not. It will take many more hours to remove the previous welds and clean up the metal beneath than simply drilling out a few original spotwelds. Maybe you could post some clear pictures of the problem areas of your car?

Monty-4
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Re: Floor & Sill Costs

Postby Monty-4 » Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:12 am

Many thanks for the detailed replies,

I'm inclined to agree that finding another shell in good condition and transferring parts over is unlikely going to be cheaper or easy, given shells aren't available like they are for MGs or Minis, so it would ultimately be a donor I don't know the history of.

The car passed an MOT last year with:
Monitor and repair if necessary (advisories):
Nearside Rear Vehicle structure is corroded but structural rigidity is not significantly reduced floor pan (6.1.1 (c) (i))
Offside Rear Vehicle structure is corroded but structural rigidity is not significantly reduced chassis rail (6.1.1 (c) (i))
It might squeak through another - but while I have the engine and gearbox out (thread) - I'd like to address the corrosion and press the car back into near daily use, as it's so much damn fun.
68' 4-door Saloon, another 'Monty'.

Bowie69
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Re: Floor & Sill Costs

Postby Bowie69 » Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:42 am

This thread is meaningless without photos ;)

Monty-4
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Re: Floor & Sill Costs

Postby Monty-4 » Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:31 pm

Had a quick poke. Those sill finishers aren't coming off without a grinder.

Fundamentally I think the sills are a typical 80s or 90s box-over repair job done as part of an older "restoration".

OS is significantly more like Weetabix and the lip adjacent to the sill finisher crumbled away with prodding. Some slight flex near the front on the underside when pushed and a hole at the very front. A couple of small holes in the floor but the rest stands up to poking - very localised rust or damage from something(?).
os-front.jpg
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os-mid.jpg
os-mid.jpg (598.53 KiB) Viewed 354 times
NS looks relatively good, nothing crumbled off in my hands. Just looks a bit suspect around the jacking point.
ns-front.jpg
ns-front.jpg (435.3 KiB) Viewed 354 times
ns-mid.jpg
ns-mid.jpg (482.67 KiB) Viewed 354 times
ns-rear.jpg
ns-rear.jpg (505.65 KiB) Viewed 354 times
68' 4-door Saloon, another 'Monty'.

jagnut66
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Re: Floor & Sill Costs

Postby jagnut66 » Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:37 pm

Had a quick poke. Those sill finishers aren't coming off without a grinder.
Before you start buying panels you will need to break out the grinder and get those kick plates off, so you can see inside from above. Then you will be able to assess exactly which panels you need to buy.
You will probably need sills but the floor pans might be repairable.
This is what should confront you with the kick plates removed, though I had to replace my boxing sections, hence the fetching shade of red oxide....
Sally being rebuilt 11.JPG
Sally being rebuilt 11.JPG (1.25 MiB) Viewed 335 times
Best wishes,
Mike.
1954 Series 2: 4 door: "Sally" -- on axle stands needing more welding......
1955 Series 2: Traveller: "Elsie May" -- on the road and enjoying her 'as is' for now but I see work ahead......
1970 Triumph Herald 1200: "Hetty" -- driven back from Llangollen in Wales

Chipper
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Re: Floor & Sill Costs

Postby Chipper » Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:31 pm

Monty-4, as an aside, please could you show a close-up of the radius arm/anti-tramp bars you have fitted, and where did you obtain them from? Also, do you find they improve handling noticeably?
Maurice, E. Kent
(1970 Traveller)

Monty-4
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Re: Floor & Sill Costs

Postby Monty-4 » Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:41 pm

Chipper wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:31 pm
Monty-4, as an aside, please could you show a close-up of the radius arm/anti-tramp bars you have fitted, and where did you obtain them from? Also, do you find they improve handling noticeably?
They are the ESM kit, I just painted & fit them. The handling change was small, it feels a little more stable when accelerating out of corners and hitting a bump, for example. You'd have to drive pretty hard to get decent axle tramp going. :)
68' 4-door Saloon, another 'Monty'.

Bowie69
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Re: Floor & Sill Costs

Postby Bowie69 » Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:20 pm

Looking at your pictures, and the attitude of the garage, I would say he just doesn't want to get involved in rust repair (few do, to be quite honest) and is trying to put you off.

Go somewhere else if you value your car as it is.

Chipper
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Re: Floor & Sill Costs

Postby Chipper » Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:07 am

Monty-4, thanks for the link. Looks like a pretty good setup to have...
Maurice, E. Kent
(1970 Traveller)

Chief
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Re: Floor & Sill Costs

Postby Chief » Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:13 pm

Bowie69 wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:20 pm
Looking at your pictures, and the attitude of the garage, I would say he just doesn't want to get involved in rust repair (few do, to be quite honest) and is trying to put you off.
This statement holds true for my own Saloon, though the garages said outright they wouldn't do the work in our case, it's why it ended up at a Minor specialist for the work to be carried out.

Monty-4
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Re: Floor & Sill Costs

Postby Monty-4 » Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:45 pm

Here we go then.

OS is "oh dear". The NS seems to be mostly superficial and feels strong but will definitely need tidying up at the least.
OS-front.jpg
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OS-front-2.jpg
OS-front-2.jpg (572.96 KiB) Viewed 52 times
NS-front.jpg
NS-front.jpg (499.05 KiB) Viewed 52 times
NS-mid.jpg
NS-mid.jpg (388.46 KiB) Viewed 52 times
NS-rear.jpg
NS-rear.jpg (483.15 KiB) Viewed 52 times
68' 4-door Saloon, another 'Monty'.

Chief
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Re: Floor & Sill Costs

Postby Chief » Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:57 pm

Monty-4 wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:45 pm
OS is "oh dear".
You were too rough getting those kick plates off ! :lol:

I'm no expert, but I'd hardly think that would classify as needing a whole new shell as you were originally recommended to do.

Monty-4
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Re: Floor & Sill Costs

Postby Monty-4 » Fri Oct 15, 2021 4:19 pm

Yes it certainly doesn't look like a write-off to me. Cautiously optimistic about getting back on the road fairly soon.
68' 4-door Saloon, another 'Monty'.


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