Folks,
What is the definite product for treating this. I don't want to stain it just seal it.
I have tried a few products over the last few years but none last more than a few months.
George
Traveller Timberwork
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g_land
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Traveller Timberwork
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Rob_Jennings
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the short answer is there is no definite product. It depends what you want and how you use the car I guess
ages ago started writing a web page based on a lot of feedback from here and other sources, it might help, look towards the end for the top coats:
Wood Work
The wooden frame of a Traveller is a structural component of the car, and should be cared for as such to keep you safe, the weather out, and the MOT test centre happy! Well cared for the wood can last indefinitely, and there are a number of cars still fitted with original woodwork after 40+ years. It also looks stunning when well cared for in either a dark, light, shiny or matte finish as you prefer.
The wood should be treated regularly, and this will depend on how you store and use your car. Of course the more exposure to the elements the more frequently this work will have to be carried out and it may influence your choice of finish.
The original wood from the factory would have been treated with a preservative and then varnished, but there are a few more options some 40 years on.
Care of the Wood
Generally the wood should be kept clean and washed with mild soap along with the rest of the car to remove road dirt and grime. After washing dry thoroughly and check that the finish is still good to all the joints, look for cracking in varnish, any dark patches or soft spots.
Checking the Wood
Before embarking on the tedious and labour intensive task of restoring the woodwork on your Traveller, it is worth making sure that the finished product is going to be worth the effort.
Areas, which are showing signs of darkening, need to be prodded with a blunt screwdriver, to check for softening. This will also apply to sections where the varnish is sound, but black and yellow marbling is apparent. This is indicative of fungi infestation, which will be working on the inner fibres. A great deal of time can be wasted stripping the original finish off the good areas, only to find a small section is soft, and unsaveable.
The sections most likely to be affected are as follows.
1. Waist rail. Where it meets the front and rear pillars. Also check under the window runners at each end. The-waist rail is the most likely section to be affected by fungi, as the window runners retain damp and are a perfect breeding ground for the spores.(Prevention of this will be dealt with later).
2. Rear Pillar, top and bottom. Prod the area where the roof is attached and on the underside at the base.
3. Foot Rail. Where the front wheel arch and front pillars are jointed. Any opening of the joints will have let the water in. Quite often these areas can be water stained but not rotten and therefore restorable.
4. Cant Rail. Occasionally problems can occur where the roof is tacked down. Unless seriously infected this can be dealt with effectively.
5. Rear Doors. As there are no water traps, the rear doors tend to last longer then the sides. The only section prone to deterioration is the middle rail. Check behind the door lock and where it meets the hinge pillars. Normally the doors can be successfully restored.
6. Rear Base Rails. Where they meet the rear pillars.
7. Rear Top Rail. Again where it meets the rear pillars and where the roof is tacked down. Prod beneath the rear door seal, which needs removing- for a thorough restoration.
Preparation for Refurbishment
The preparation of the wood is the same regardless of the final top coat and has a number of stages depending on the present condition. In good sate of repair the wood need only be masked and sanded before a new top coat, in a poor state then all the step below will be required to provide a solid base for the top coat.
Assuming that most of the frame is in sound condition, and the refurbishment is to continue removal of certain trims and fittings will make the task easier.
* Firstly remove the rear doors and hinges. This should be a simple matter of undoing the nuts and removing the bolts. It may be that some of them are rusted on and need cutting through with a hacksaw or grinder. Either way it is advisable to replace all the bolts with new, zinc-plated replacements.
* Removal of the windows is essential to access the hidden areas of the middle rail. This is done by removing the inner capping rails. After taking out all the retaining screws the middle capping will need to be levered off to break the seal. The windows can then be lifted out by inserting a screwdriver under the lower runners and removing both windows and runners at the same time. Although the runners are screwed down, it is likely that they will be ineffective and can be removed from the wood once the windows are out.
* Depending on the condition of the upper runners you may or may not decide to remove them. The uprights in the front and rear pillars are likely to be decayed and it is advisable to remove and replace.
* The lights and reflector in the rear pillar should be taken out to make stripping and sanding easier. This also applies to the three lower bolts in the front pillar. If these do not turn easily then a sharp tap with a hammer on the screwdriver should loosen them.
* The sides are now ready for stripping back to bare wood. Mask the metal around the areas to be treated, but take care to use low adhesive tape as often the paint on the aluminium panels may be removed with the tape. The worst area for this can be the gutters
* The doors can either be restored with the panels and glass in, or for a thorough restoration they can be removed. It is advisable to leave the glass in to retain shape and strength, but with the aluminium panels out of the way the inner faces of the lower sections are much more accessible.
* The panel on the nearside door is easily removed by taking out the screws. The offside door has the added complication of the locking mechanism. This only becomes a problem because of the door handle, which is invariably corroded in its housing. To facilitate removal liberally spray with freeing fluid where the shaft is located on the inside of the door. After removal of the two outer retaining screws, and the single one on the inside, several hard strikes with a hammer and punch should shift it. If this does not work the only option is to drill out the shaft where it is held by the inner mechanism. A new handle will obviously be required, but be careful not to damage the main mechanism and rods as these are not readily available.
The restoration of the woodwork can now commence.
Removing Present Finish
The tools and materials required are as follows.
1. Electric hot air gun. (Paint stripper is not advisable as not only is it messy and likely to damage the paintwork, but cleaning residue from the wood is very difficult. The hot air gun will not damage cellulose paint unless very much overheated.)
2. A long handled scraper. Skarsten make a variety of scrapers with replaceable blades. These will leave a clean and flat surface needing minimal sanding.
3. A sharp chisel to get into the less accessible nooks and crannies.
4. Glass paper grades 80/100 grit.
5. Wood lightener. This is a peroxide two-part bleach supplied by Rustins or Colron. Various trade brands are also available but the contents are the same. A good natural alternative to this is the juice of lemons, simply squeeze as required and paint on in place of the chemicals, allwing a bit longer for the reaction to tkae place.
6. Wood preservative. Cuprinol 5 Star clear is very effective.
It is important that you allow enough time to complete the job properly. A full week is essential and this assumes dry conditions under cover. Different types of finish may take longer. If you are going to undertake this time consuming task it is worth getting it right first time. A few more days now will save time and effort in future maintenance.
Whichever finish has been previously applied it is likely that the most of it is on the surface. By moving the hot air gun back and forth over a 4-5 inch area, the surface will soften and any residue in the grain will bubble out and be readily scraped off. Always scrape with the grain, and work one section at a time until complete. Depending on how much the grain has opened up over the years will decide how much of the surface of the wood will need removing. A limited amount of discolouration within the grain will be removable by the bleach.
There will be a number of areas where grey/black patches remain. The process and success of dealing with these stains will depend on the type and cause. On an original wheel arch there may be distinct 'blueing' which originates from the threaded sleeves holding the wing bolts. This staining is coming from the centre
of the wood and no amount of scraping or bleaching will remove it. This is not necessarily indicative of rot, but it will mean using a finish, which will go some way to disguising it.
Once all the original finish has been removed with the scraper you should be left with a reasonably smooth but patchy surface. It is now worth coating the whole surface with a wood lightener or bleach. This will be a two-part system and it is important to follow the instructions. This will entail brushing the whole surface with the A coat. This will cause the wood to darken dramatically. Leave to dry for approximately 20 minutes.Application of the B coat should be done with care, as it immediately reacts with the A coat and, any contact with the skin will result in instant burns. Brush the B coat on evenly and allow to dry. Direct sunlight will increase the effect and drying time. If the temperature is too low, or direct sunlight is not practical, you may end up with a slightly yellow surface. If this happens apply a further B coat, and dry with the hot air gun.
You should now be left with just a few dark areas around the joints. These stains can have another 2-3 applications of the bleach again using heat to speed the process. Do not try to fast dry the A coat, as it will not sink in. Another trick is to apply a saturated solution of Oxalic acid to the B coat while wet. This will again speed and accentuate the bleaching process. Oxalic acid (available from chemists) can be used on its own but is not very strong.
Alternatively the juice of lemons can be used to provide the acid required, simple squeeze and paint on, allowing to dry and repeat as necessary. More applications may be required than commercial products but its cheap and a green alternative.
Any stains now left are there to stay. Check again for any softness and if no sign of rot is apparent then you must decide whether to replace the section, or ignore it. By using a finish with a slight staining, most blemishes can be successfully disguised. Once the Traveller is in regular use the sunlight will continue to lighten these areas.
The surface should now be wiped down with water to make sure the acid is stabilised, and then left to dry thoroughly. The surface should then be sanded down to smooth the raised grain.
The whole frame should now be thoroughly soaked with several coats of Cuprinol 5 Star. This must be left for 2-3 days to dry to allow all the active toxins to escape. Depending on the cosmetic standard you are trying to achieve, you may wish to bleach again some areas, which have darkened during the application of the wood preservative.
Top Coats
There are a few options when it comes to the final finish of the wood, and these will depend on how you use and keep your car, and personal preference. Each has a number of pros and cons that you may like to consider before using.
Oil
This treatment is generally considered good for cars that do not suffer a great deal of exposure to the elements. The basic principle is that the oil soaks into the timber providing a water resistant layer that will repel dirt and grime. It provides a matte finish once the oil has soaked into the wood. The best known brand to use is probably Danish Oil, which is also used to treat garden furniture and flooring.
Pros:
* It has the advantage that it is fully flexible and can be repeated many times before you need to go back to the wood surface again.
* It will not crack or split and easily soaks into the complex joint, providing better protection at those points.
* It takes only minutes to repeat an application.
Cons:
* The surface will repel dirt, but it is not completely resistant and so will discolour over time as road grime will tend to penetrate the surface.
* This product soaks into the wood and so it cannot be easily removed at a later date, a coloured oil will difficult to remove after
* To continue to provide protection it will need to be repeated frequently (depending on use of the vehicle this might be 4-12 month intervals)
Application
After preparation simply apply with a cloth liberally over the wood. The product will soak in over time and several coats may be required on the first application. After a good clean and dry the process may be repeated throughout the year to maintain protection
Varnish
This is the original finish of the wood that came from the factory. It provides a good protective coat and applied correctly can last several years before it needs to be repeated. There are now several new varnish products since the minor was made that make it easier to use, or you can stick to the traditional methods if you prefer originality. Most varnish finishes give a shiny final coat, although this will matte with age.
Pros:
* It provides a complete water tight protective surface that is very tough and will resist dirt and road grime.
* It can last for many years when applied correctly
* It requires minimum maintenance until the next application
* It is the original factory finish for the wood
Cons:
* Once the surface cracks or splits then water will penetrate and discolour and rot the wood. This is most evident at joints which of course move as the car body flexes
* It takes a fair amount of time to add several coats due to the drying time between them.
* Some varnish's can discolour with UV light, Be very sure to use one designed for outdoors.
Application
For normal varnish (must be specified as outdoor, or yacht) several coats will be required, early coats are often best thinned down to 50-50 solutions progressively moving to full varnish for the final coats. The varnish should be brushed on taking care to cover all the joint areas and allowed to dry for several hours before the next coat is applied. This will require several dry warm days as any moisture trapped in the layers will reduce the quality and life of the final finish.
Miro-porous or breathable varnishes (Sikkens or Burgess) should be applied according to the manufactures instructions, take care to cover all the joints thoroughly. These are often 2 part products with a under and over coat that bond in such a way that water can only pass out of the surface rather than inwards. The under coat should be applied and allowed to dry sufficiently before the outer coat. Ideally this should be done in warm dry conditions, but since this surface does breath then water trapped in the layers will leave a milky spot that eventually fades as the water evaporates.
ages ago started writing a web page based on a lot of feedback from here and other sources, it might help, look towards the end for the top coats:
Wood Work
The wooden frame of a Traveller is a structural component of the car, and should be cared for as such to keep you safe, the weather out, and the MOT test centre happy! Well cared for the wood can last indefinitely, and there are a number of cars still fitted with original woodwork after 40+ years. It also looks stunning when well cared for in either a dark, light, shiny or matte finish as you prefer.
The wood should be treated regularly, and this will depend on how you store and use your car. Of course the more exposure to the elements the more frequently this work will have to be carried out and it may influence your choice of finish.
The original wood from the factory would have been treated with a preservative and then varnished, but there are a few more options some 40 years on.
Care of the Wood
Generally the wood should be kept clean and washed with mild soap along with the rest of the car to remove road dirt and grime. After washing dry thoroughly and check that the finish is still good to all the joints, look for cracking in varnish, any dark patches or soft spots.
Checking the Wood
Before embarking on the tedious and labour intensive task of restoring the woodwork on your Traveller, it is worth making sure that the finished product is going to be worth the effort.
Areas, which are showing signs of darkening, need to be prodded with a blunt screwdriver, to check for softening. This will also apply to sections where the varnish is sound, but black and yellow marbling is apparent. This is indicative of fungi infestation, which will be working on the inner fibres. A great deal of time can be wasted stripping the original finish off the good areas, only to find a small section is soft, and unsaveable.
The sections most likely to be affected are as follows.
1. Waist rail. Where it meets the front and rear pillars. Also check under the window runners at each end. The-waist rail is the most likely section to be affected by fungi, as the window runners retain damp and are a perfect breeding ground for the spores.(Prevention of this will be dealt with later).
2. Rear Pillar, top and bottom. Prod the area where the roof is attached and on the underside at the base.
3. Foot Rail. Where the front wheel arch and front pillars are jointed. Any opening of the joints will have let the water in. Quite often these areas can be water stained but not rotten and therefore restorable.
4. Cant Rail. Occasionally problems can occur where the roof is tacked down. Unless seriously infected this can be dealt with effectively.
5. Rear Doors. As there are no water traps, the rear doors tend to last longer then the sides. The only section prone to deterioration is the middle rail. Check behind the door lock and where it meets the hinge pillars. Normally the doors can be successfully restored.
6. Rear Base Rails. Where they meet the rear pillars.
7. Rear Top Rail. Again where it meets the rear pillars and where the roof is tacked down. Prod beneath the rear door seal, which needs removing- for a thorough restoration.
Preparation for Refurbishment
The preparation of the wood is the same regardless of the final top coat and has a number of stages depending on the present condition. In good sate of repair the wood need only be masked and sanded before a new top coat, in a poor state then all the step below will be required to provide a solid base for the top coat.
Assuming that most of the frame is in sound condition, and the refurbishment is to continue removal of certain trims and fittings will make the task easier.
* Firstly remove the rear doors and hinges. This should be a simple matter of undoing the nuts and removing the bolts. It may be that some of them are rusted on and need cutting through with a hacksaw or grinder. Either way it is advisable to replace all the bolts with new, zinc-plated replacements.
* Removal of the windows is essential to access the hidden areas of the middle rail. This is done by removing the inner capping rails. After taking out all the retaining screws the middle capping will need to be levered off to break the seal. The windows can then be lifted out by inserting a screwdriver under the lower runners and removing both windows and runners at the same time. Although the runners are screwed down, it is likely that they will be ineffective and can be removed from the wood once the windows are out.
* Depending on the condition of the upper runners you may or may not decide to remove them. The uprights in the front and rear pillars are likely to be decayed and it is advisable to remove and replace.
* The lights and reflector in the rear pillar should be taken out to make stripping and sanding easier. This also applies to the three lower bolts in the front pillar. If these do not turn easily then a sharp tap with a hammer on the screwdriver should loosen them.
* The sides are now ready for stripping back to bare wood. Mask the metal around the areas to be treated, but take care to use low adhesive tape as often the paint on the aluminium panels may be removed with the tape. The worst area for this can be the gutters
* The doors can either be restored with the panels and glass in, or for a thorough restoration they can be removed. It is advisable to leave the glass in to retain shape and strength, but with the aluminium panels out of the way the inner faces of the lower sections are much more accessible.
* The panel on the nearside door is easily removed by taking out the screws. The offside door has the added complication of the locking mechanism. This only becomes a problem because of the door handle, which is invariably corroded in its housing. To facilitate removal liberally spray with freeing fluid where the shaft is located on the inside of the door. After removal of the two outer retaining screws, and the single one on the inside, several hard strikes with a hammer and punch should shift it. If this does not work the only option is to drill out the shaft where it is held by the inner mechanism. A new handle will obviously be required, but be careful not to damage the main mechanism and rods as these are not readily available.
The restoration of the woodwork can now commence.
Removing Present Finish
The tools and materials required are as follows.
1. Electric hot air gun. (Paint stripper is not advisable as not only is it messy and likely to damage the paintwork, but cleaning residue from the wood is very difficult. The hot air gun will not damage cellulose paint unless very much overheated.)
2. A long handled scraper. Skarsten make a variety of scrapers with replaceable blades. These will leave a clean and flat surface needing minimal sanding.
3. A sharp chisel to get into the less accessible nooks and crannies.
4. Glass paper grades 80/100 grit.
5. Wood lightener. This is a peroxide two-part bleach supplied by Rustins or Colron. Various trade brands are also available but the contents are the same. A good natural alternative to this is the juice of lemons, simply squeeze as required and paint on in place of the chemicals, allwing a bit longer for the reaction to tkae place.
6. Wood preservative. Cuprinol 5 Star clear is very effective.
It is important that you allow enough time to complete the job properly. A full week is essential and this assumes dry conditions under cover. Different types of finish may take longer. If you are going to undertake this time consuming task it is worth getting it right first time. A few more days now will save time and effort in future maintenance.
Whichever finish has been previously applied it is likely that the most of it is on the surface. By moving the hot air gun back and forth over a 4-5 inch area, the surface will soften and any residue in the grain will bubble out and be readily scraped off. Always scrape with the grain, and work one section at a time until complete. Depending on how much the grain has opened up over the years will decide how much of the surface of the wood will need removing. A limited amount of discolouration within the grain will be removable by the bleach.
There will be a number of areas where grey/black patches remain. The process and success of dealing with these stains will depend on the type and cause. On an original wheel arch there may be distinct 'blueing' which originates from the threaded sleeves holding the wing bolts. This staining is coming from the centre
of the wood and no amount of scraping or bleaching will remove it. This is not necessarily indicative of rot, but it will mean using a finish, which will go some way to disguising it.
Once all the original finish has been removed with the scraper you should be left with a reasonably smooth but patchy surface. It is now worth coating the whole surface with a wood lightener or bleach. This will be a two-part system and it is important to follow the instructions. This will entail brushing the whole surface with the A coat. This will cause the wood to darken dramatically. Leave to dry for approximately 20 minutes.Application of the B coat should be done with care, as it immediately reacts with the A coat and, any contact with the skin will result in instant burns. Brush the B coat on evenly and allow to dry. Direct sunlight will increase the effect and drying time. If the temperature is too low, or direct sunlight is not practical, you may end up with a slightly yellow surface. If this happens apply a further B coat, and dry with the hot air gun.
You should now be left with just a few dark areas around the joints. These stains can have another 2-3 applications of the bleach again using heat to speed the process. Do not try to fast dry the A coat, as it will not sink in. Another trick is to apply a saturated solution of Oxalic acid to the B coat while wet. This will again speed and accentuate the bleaching process. Oxalic acid (available from chemists) can be used on its own but is not very strong.
Alternatively the juice of lemons can be used to provide the acid required, simple squeeze and paint on, allowing to dry and repeat as necessary. More applications may be required than commercial products but its cheap and a green alternative.
Any stains now left are there to stay. Check again for any softness and if no sign of rot is apparent then you must decide whether to replace the section, or ignore it. By using a finish with a slight staining, most blemishes can be successfully disguised. Once the Traveller is in regular use the sunlight will continue to lighten these areas.
The surface should now be wiped down with water to make sure the acid is stabilised, and then left to dry thoroughly. The surface should then be sanded down to smooth the raised grain.
The whole frame should now be thoroughly soaked with several coats of Cuprinol 5 Star. This must be left for 2-3 days to dry to allow all the active toxins to escape. Depending on the cosmetic standard you are trying to achieve, you may wish to bleach again some areas, which have darkened during the application of the wood preservative.
Top Coats
There are a few options when it comes to the final finish of the wood, and these will depend on how you use and keep your car, and personal preference. Each has a number of pros and cons that you may like to consider before using.
Oil
This treatment is generally considered good for cars that do not suffer a great deal of exposure to the elements. The basic principle is that the oil soaks into the timber providing a water resistant layer that will repel dirt and grime. It provides a matte finish once the oil has soaked into the wood. The best known brand to use is probably Danish Oil, which is also used to treat garden furniture and flooring.
Pros:
* It has the advantage that it is fully flexible and can be repeated many times before you need to go back to the wood surface again.
* It will not crack or split and easily soaks into the complex joint, providing better protection at those points.
* It takes only minutes to repeat an application.
Cons:
* The surface will repel dirt, but it is not completely resistant and so will discolour over time as road grime will tend to penetrate the surface.
* This product soaks into the wood and so it cannot be easily removed at a later date, a coloured oil will difficult to remove after
* To continue to provide protection it will need to be repeated frequently (depending on use of the vehicle this might be 4-12 month intervals)
Application
After preparation simply apply with a cloth liberally over the wood. The product will soak in over time and several coats may be required on the first application. After a good clean and dry the process may be repeated throughout the year to maintain protection
Varnish
This is the original finish of the wood that came from the factory. It provides a good protective coat and applied correctly can last several years before it needs to be repeated. There are now several new varnish products since the minor was made that make it easier to use, or you can stick to the traditional methods if you prefer originality. Most varnish finishes give a shiny final coat, although this will matte with age.
Pros:
* It provides a complete water tight protective surface that is very tough and will resist dirt and road grime.
* It can last for many years when applied correctly
* It requires minimum maintenance until the next application
* It is the original factory finish for the wood
Cons:
* Once the surface cracks or splits then water will penetrate and discolour and rot the wood. This is most evident at joints which of course move as the car body flexes
* It takes a fair amount of time to add several coats due to the drying time between them.
* Some varnish's can discolour with UV light, Be very sure to use one designed for outdoors.
Application
For normal varnish (must be specified as outdoor, or yacht) several coats will be required, early coats are often best thinned down to 50-50 solutions progressively moving to full varnish for the final coats. The varnish should be brushed on taking care to cover all the joint areas and allowed to dry for several hours before the next coat is applied. This will require several dry warm days as any moisture trapped in the layers will reduce the quality and life of the final finish.
Miro-porous or breathable varnishes (Sikkens or Burgess) should be applied according to the manufactures instructions, take care to cover all the joints thoroughly. These are often 2 part products with a under and over coat that bond in such a way that water can only pass out of the surface rather than inwards. The under coat should be applied and allowed to dry sufficiently before the outer coat. Ideally this should be done in warm dry conditions, but since this surface does breath then water trapped in the layers will leave a milky spot that eventually fades as the water evaporates.
Rob
Lizzy 1970 Morris Minor Traveller and Noah 1969 Morris Mini Traveller
Lizzy 1970 Morris Minor Traveller and Noah 1969 Morris Mini Traveller
I scraped mine clean - treated it copiously with Cuprinol 5 star and allowed to dry completeley - then treated it with Teak oil applied with a cloth on a hot sunny day! Yes it's a bit sticky and needs re-doing from time to time - but it doesn't trrap and moisture in the timber. Some use microporous clear sealer - which they find to be good.
I still use yacht varnish, though I took some of it back to bare wood last summer and treated it with the Cuprinol preservative first. The varnish does crack and need re-doing every year or two but the car lives outside all year round and is used daily. It should certainly last longer than "just a few months".