Painting your classic

[katiekat]

I am sanding by hand as I need the exercise! I've got some questions now:
1. Why do I need primer?
2. I've got one litre of paint and a can of activator. Will I need to thin it?
3. How do I know what sort of paint I've got?
4. Can I not just spray directly onto the sanded down paint?

Thanks very much for all the advice!

[ASL642]

We sanded it completely back and applied about 4/5 coats of high build primer. We flatted down in between each of these coats. Then wiped it all down with flatting pads (removes and particules/dust. Then 4/5 coats of cellulose paint. Left it to harden for about a week and then polished it with G3 a cutting polish which cuts the paintwork completely flat. More sanding with 1200 this time. Keep washing the car when sanding. When it's wet you can see where you've still to flat more easily.

[pfgiz]

My Dad used to rave about 'brush on cellulose' but I guess those days are gone...

I'm off to Aldi to get me a little sprayer so I can finish my car nicely...

Any hints on pannel beating? seems a bit of a black art to me but Dad used to talk about flat bits of wood and hide hammers....

At least I'm not painting the car with a roller, that was my brother. At least he didn't have any brush marks....

[d_harris]

I'm going to have a crack with a roller..........

[pfgiz]

I'm going to have a crack with a roller..........

It was fun to watch and an interesting finish.

[dalebrignall]

i painted my tractor by hand 6 years ago.i spent a long time on the rubbing down and priming.its all in the preparation,the more you do the better the result.i have got small brush marks but no rust.the tractor is there to work,not to be polished.

[MGFmad]

I am sanding by hand as I need the exercise! I've got some questions now:
1. Why do I need primer?
2. I've got one litre of paint and a can of activator. Will I need to thin it?
3. How do I know what sort of paint I've got?
4. Can I not just spray directly onto the sanded down paint?

Thanks very much for all the advice!

Primer is like an undercoat and is put onto bare steel before painting your top coat (finish coat) you can prime on top of existing paint but its not always necessary. If the old paint is sound and you sand it to key the surface for the new paint, you can put the new top coat directly onto the old.

If you have activator it sound like 2 pack paint you have (2K) for this you have the paint, 2K thinners and activator, these are mixed together but the activator is posionous so you should only spray this using an air fed mask. You get a face mask that has an airline that you connect to your compressor, this feeds you breathing air so you don't breath in the fumes. Again the compressor needs to be big enough to supply air to the gun and the mask and should be located outside so the compressor does not suck in the fumes then feed them to your mask.

One thing to watch for is that your new paint is compatible with the old paint - I had this problem today while painting my windscreen suround on my MGF, it had been previously badly re-painted by its last owner and when I put the new primer on, the paint started to craze- I had to sand the whole lot off back to bare metal to stop the problem. You can get special paint that acts as a barrier type coat to stop this though (I didn't have any!)

[bmcecosse]

I don't like the sound of 'can of paint and 'activator'' - that sounds very like 2 pack paint - which MUST NOT be sprayed without wearing full fresh air breathing apparatus. Otherwise - it will kill you. Two ways it does this - you breathe in some of the paint and it then hardens (because it's 2 pack - it's like Araldite - it sets solid!) over the surface of your lungs, the other way is it induces asthma - I found this on another site - "Two-pack paints contain Isocyanates, which is toxic, and can build up in the bloodstream with prolonged use, causing death". It doesn't need 'prolonged use' - you may very well be susceptible to it and could suffer an allergic reaction. This stuff has been banned for use even by Professionals with full breathing equipment. It's also murder(!) to clean out of the spray gun before it goes 'off' - in which case you can throw the gun away. So - if it is 2 pack paint - take it back and get your money back! DO NOT use it!! Home spraying is best done with cellulose - it's harmful and flammable - but not 'deadly' unless you are very unwise with it. Spray outdoors (watch where the overspray goes - not on other cars !!!) on a warm dry still day.

[ani]

I admire the beginner who wants to attempt all this and I wish I could. However I think all this spraying with compressors is best left to the experts or those who have at least had experience with them. The paintwork is far from perfect on the pick-up but its old and I like it with all its wrinkles - sort of adds character!!!

PS Of course if someone wants to spray it for me - I might reconsider

[ASL642]

I practised on an old car door until I got the flow right. It takes a bit of time to get it right, but even if you gat a "sag" it can be rubbed out. Even in the open air we still use disposable masks. couldn't avoid the cat who ran out from under the car though - she went round with a dark green overspray. I decided not to try thinners on her as she would lick it off

[jonathon]

Strangely BM 2K is still available in most of Europe, indeed if you can buy it here in GB then you are allowed to use it. Apparently the cost of administering the new ban was to expensive and a logistical nightmare so has fallen by the wayside.
I have never has a problem with cleaning my gun after spraying.
It is a dangerous product if the relevant safety measures are not adhered to.
You should always use etch primer on bare steel, before high build primer. You do not need to flat each coat of primer, lay on a hanger coat then two more wet on wet coats let this dry then guide coat and flat then
G3 compound is used after flatting with fine wet and dry , we never use anything coarser than 1500 grit with a flatting block, then a 1500 wet DA on a 3mm occilation pad. Cut with G3 then to remove any marks then polish (either 2K or Celly)
Do not use the same airline to paint with, as you do to use your other oil lubricated air tools, the oil will contaminate your finish

[bmcecosse]

Noted Jonathon - my info came from HSE Inspector who visited our factory. We had nothing to do with spraying - but I casually mentioned that I had classic cars and did some spraying at home. He took me aside and (off the record) advised me to NOT EVER use 2 pack paint under any circs - not even with an air fed mask. HSE at that time were coming across more and more folks - including amateurs - who had seriously damaged their health using the stuff.
Here's the full story behind the small piece I noted above - it makes good reading - take note of it!!
http://freespace.virgin.net/tommy.sandham/twopack.htm

I hope his 'health problems' were not caused by the 2 pack - but maybe they were. His Risk Assessment should be more than enough to put anyone off the idea of home spraying 2 pack !!

[jonathon]

Noted All bodyshops now (large) must hold monthly full medicals for their bodyshop staff. Paint is still a major concern as is dust ,be it rust D/A of paint or filler. The most common problem though is nerve damage in wrists, elbows and shoulders, due to repetative actions and the high viabration levels of tools. Hearing damage is also an issue which has led to the banning of air chisels and needle hammers.
HSE has gone a tad overboard in some cases ie a worker cutting of part of a cars bodywork can no longer remove and refit a cutting /grinding/sanding disc, this must be performed by a designated /trained opperative. Using a rattle can to lay on a guide coat must be done in a full spray booth and not in an open shop , this is a sacking offence
A lot of good work has gone into making shops safer, but this has driven costs up. We have just bought an extractor for our D/A work, just the vaccuum and one D/A cost over £1300 and this is a must have piece of equipment.

[bmcecosse]

I'm afraid so Jon. I was glad to retire from my Safety Manager job - because it was just becoming impossible to keep up!
And now - at the volunteer railway I go to - a lad managed to fall off the loco footplate (no serious injury - but it could have been very very serious) - and that's going to lead to all manner of problems for all preserved railways !

[kennatt]

just picked up this thread ,been on holiday,as roy says do not under any circumstances use that paint,it is 2k by the sound of it,You also will not be able to use water based paint unless you have some form of heating,and I believe that the water based paint then needs to be sprayed with a clear coat after it has dried,guess what the clear coat is 2k. The only paint you will be able to use is cellulose. As I mentioned earlier to you,Graham Davies Middlesbrough Is the only one in the north east that I know of who will still supply for older cars.It's easy to spray paint,but very difficult without years of practice to get a professional finish,shiney from the gun look.You will do it,and get a good enough finish by repeated cutting back,respraying and polishing.Go for it and as others have said just do a panel at a time outside on a warm still day,keep it out of direct sunshine because celly hardens quickly with heat and can give a hard rough finish which will be very difficult to polish flat. Also any sudden whaft of cold wind can cause the surface to develop a white bloom,easily polished off,but prevented to an extent by getting premium qulaity anti bloom thinners Good luck with it

[jonathon]

Water based paint actually relies more on air flow over the surface rather than heat. The laquer is high solids so is deemed less dangerous than standard old 2K (strange)
Go celly as suggested ,but still wear adequate breathing gear as the thinners is particulary nasty to your lungs. Also tell the neighbours not to put out any washing and stay away from where you are spraying. Overspray will stick to any surface and is a pig to remove.
Try and see if your local sprayshop or college would allow you to rent a booth. Training colleges often do free or drastically reduced prices.

[plastic_orange]

2k (reduced selection of tinters though) and base coat paints are still readily available for using on older vehicles.

Pete

[katiekat]

Thanks very much for all that advice. So what you are telling is not to use the paint I bought? It's just too dangerous, even with a mask?

I'm surprised the guy sold it to me as it was obvious that I'm a novice. He didn't tell me it was dangerous or to wear a mask. All I asked for was a tin of paint for my car.

I'm really shocked as I probably would have gone ahead and sprayed it on without a mask.

[bmcecosse]

Not just a 'mask' - but full face positive pressure respirator with fresh air supply. Read the story about the Cortina - and absorb what he says. And sadly at the end he admits to now having health problems. Hopefully not from the 2K - but maybe ??
But cheer up - when I first got my Traveller I re-sprayed most of it (not roof obviously) using rattle cans ! One can per panel - with care and it made a surprisingly ok job. Since then most have been improved with celly from a spray gun - and the roof has been done too. That is the worst job - one problem I had was ocassional drips from the gun landing on the roof!

[katiekat]

Thanks bmc. I think I'll get some cellulose paint form Graham Davies.

Have you got the address kennatt please?