Novice Atacks Internal Surface Rust

[james.ed]

Hi All,

My moggys (two door 1969 saloon) always had water penetration during very heavy rain when parked on a slant (one wheel on the curb). Guessed the problem was the worn door seals which i've replaced and no water this morning! Still need to get one of my doors realigned so the top window frame meets the rubbers (which are the original style thick ones) - currently still have a little gap between. I'll prob get Charles Ware to sort that at my next MOT. Aside from that hoping she'll be water tight now.

Now i'm dealing with the surface rust inside. I've had some on the gearbox cover plate and behind the seat where the they've pushed the floor into a slight dip. I'm using rust remover and man powered sandpaper and what started with a patch has become a full on stripping of the interior before I paint and hopefuly treat myself to new (not dirty oil stained) carpets.

Few questions - sure they'll have been asked before.

Once the rusts off whats the best way to protect (planning on using a rust proof primer and then spraying with my moggy's colour)?

Can I / Should I undo the countersunk screws holding the gear box plate and check under it for rust (altho I brought it from Charles Ware and they undersealed recently) - and if I undo the screws will anything drastic fall off? Its my everyday car so I need to do the work but keep her going. If I do undo the screws - do I need to put anything between the two plates when I screw it back on?

Finally - where the passenger chair meets the floor making the dent that became the puddle in heavy rain, i've found a mini hole which seems to have had a repair plate welded from below. This seems less than good as water must have leaked through said hole onto the plates upper side. Should it be cut out and welded at some stage?

Any other thoughts whilst i'm working away - I'm new to mog's and i'd like mine to last a long long time.

thanks

[d_harris]

you need to make sure that you remove all rust. (anything thats left will continue to grow) a good layer of primer (go zinc rich if you can) and get a good topcoat on it. (doesn't have to be body colour, it'll be covered by carpet anyway!)

There is nothing that will come away if you take the gearbox cover off, originally there seemed to be a layer of masic type material between the two panels but I'm not wholly sure that nessecary.

In terms of the grotty patch, better to get it welded sooner rather than later...

[james.ed]

ta - as I expected then. I'll be back in my moggy with the dremel come monday morning. I'll pull the gearbox cover plate up aswell and check for anything interesting, and then I can get the primer in between the plates. thanks for you're help. I had horrid ideas of metal supports hitting the floor once i had all the screws off, and living in london with my usual garage in bristol, I did not like the thoughts of a tow truck all the way!

[bmcecosse]

Once you remove all the surface rust - coat immediately with Jenolite or similar rust 'killer'- and then good thick primer and top coat. Since it's under carpets anyway - you may find brush painted Hammerite or similar is a better bet. A 'dremel' is far too small a tool for this work - you want a small angle grinder with a knotted wire brush fitted - and goggles! Don't worry about the gearbox cover - never been known to rust! Usually covered in oil from below. Your faith in Wares is not shared by everyone.......

[Peetee]

you want a small angle grinder with a knotted wire brush fitted - and goggles!

And gloves and sleeves!

[chickenjohn]

I agree with the advice to use a wire brush on grinder, and to remove absolutely ALL rust. You can also paint any pits with 5-10% phosphric acid in water and keep alternating wire brushing the pits and wetting with phosphoric acid till the pits no longer turn black, then you have got rid of the rust.

However, the advice to use rust converters is wrong. Rust converters are basically rubbish, all they do is convert the very top layer and hide the rust - but the rust is till there and will be back in a year or two! And jenolite "rust remover" is basically a very expensive way to buy phosphoric acid! Make your own rust remover up and save money!

As for gearbox cover, remove it and have it blasted and either etch primed and painted black yourself or get it powder coated black. Oh, and gearbox covers CAN and DO get surface rust IF water has leaked into the car at some point in its life, through the windscreen seal, for example.

And one last thought, NEVER trust fresh underseal. Often applied by disreputable garages to hide nasties like rust or poor quality repairs. Remove any fresh underseal and see what lies underneath. If sound and rust free, then zinc prime, chassis black, seam seal any seams and apply underbody wax.

[chickenjohn]

you want a small angle grinder with a knotted wire brush fitted - and goggles!

And gloves and sleeves!

and steel toe boots, decent overalls, ear protection and a dust mask! Using a grinder is a messy and potenitally dangerous business.

[bmcecosse]

I agree the Jenolite is used by me as a source of phosphoric acid. Dunno where I would buy it commercially - or do you just use Cola ?? And I agree 'rust converters' are hopeless - but the Jenolite (yes H3PO4) does do a fair job of killing the rust - but I only use it as an 'acid etch' after physically removing all the visible rust. You can never really hope to 'convert' rust into anything useful!

[james.ed]

I'll get my grinder out then - I'm a car newbie but I've had a fair bit of workshop experience so I'm prepared for the noise and mess. I'll pull the gearbox cover off fix it up whilst I'm tinkering inside. This is def one of the smaller jobs that has become an obsessive mission but I'm determined to get her as good as gold bit by bit. At least fixing door seals was a quick and easy job.

I've been using hammerite rust removing gel and a fair bit of elbow work to get the rust off up till now. Its mostly gone in the areas I've worked, although there's still occasional pitting. does anyone know where I can get Jenolite from without having to order it via the post.. or an alternative source or phosphoric acid. I'm guessing working in Coke wouldn't be the proper way of fixing a car?!

I'll check the underside over as best I can, but I'm not sure I'll have time to start stripping and checking that until christmas - currently studying fifth year architecture and stripping the inside of my mog is making me feel guilty enough! I've had a chap (luckily my next door neighbour's dad is a retired classic mechanic) have a look and he didn't see anything worrying. still - point well made... I'll check out the under seal.

Not to bring any companies into disrepute (as ware's have always helped me out with seemingly good advice and service) but does anyone know of any trusty garages in the Kingston / Guidlford / Reigate area where my moggy wouldn't be butchered! PM me if its best not to say things on the message board.

Thanks for all you're help. Learning everyday

[chickenjohn]

Last time I checked you can get phosphoric acid from Ebay sellers. As for good specialists, it is well worth visiting ESM, I have seen several examples of their restoration work and it is consistently top notch.

[xpress]

just to say, i have made a thread about my adventures with derusting the under chassis, you might want to look there for some real world adventures.

to echo comments already mentioned in this post. i don't rate jenolite, only to etch the surface, i wouldn't t ever trust it for much tho, i don't even find it makes the derusting process any quicker. and if you're going on top with zinc rich prime, then why bother?!

also, i would say zinc rich primer, then some sort of stoneguard all over the chassis not just arches, then a strong wipeable enamel based topcoat. i would ditch all the waxes, just hose down this hardwearing topcoat and dissolve all the salt off there in the winter at least twice a week if you can, better still after every run! (and please check your drain holes are clean and clear!)

[james.ed]

So far i've stripped the foot-wells and begun the floor plates behind the passenger and driver seats. New zinc primer is going on as I work, and my car is remaining water tight despite the storms (new door seals make alot of difference). Not amazing progress but I'm squeezing this into a few hours every week on my father in laws driveway. serious work will have to wait until Christmas, or perhaps next summer when I'll have finished.

On my rust journeys i have discovered one patch on a small hole where the passenger seat hits the floor. This is from below, so i'm guessing I should get it ripped out and a proper weld done, instead of allowing water to fill the plate topside with rust. Also i've found.. A small hole (1x1cm) on the prop shaft bump, near the base where it flattens out into the floor plate. A 3 cm crack/hole where the drivers chair leg hits the floor.

The joys of trying to deal with a problem properly is the discovery of more problems. I'll be getting these bits sorted at Christmas by a garage, as I have neither the time to learn or do any welding. how much work is/what's involved in fixing smaller holes (theyr'e all about 1x1cm roughly) ? and any of ball park prices?

Thanks for all you're help!

[8009STEVE]

garages in the Kingston / Guidlford / Reigate area where my moggy wouldn't be butchered


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