Rear spring hanger - advice please

[GheeBhow]

Hi all,

I've read quite a few of the threads in here about rear spring hangers - enough of them to know that I've got away quite lightly with my traveller. It hasn't ever been patched in this area, so it's pretty 'honest'.

In the top pic below, you can see that the inner wing is holed just behind the upper bolt, and there's another small hole about 8 inches in front of that on the lower edge of the inner wing. In the lower pic, the underseal has clearly done a good job of letting moisture in, although as far as I can tell, the rust is all surface and there aren't any holes. I've had an endoscope down the chassis leg and it looks very clean inside.

The bootwell floor is clearly shot, and the rear edge of the inner wing will also need some new metal letting in.



Assuming the rust isn't worse than it appears in the photos, what do you think my options for repairing are? I suppose the obvious one is to get the spring hanger repair section and just use, say, the back third of it if the rest of the metal is OK. Are there others I should think about?

And what is that sticky up part with the hole cut out of it actually for? I've often wondered that...

Thanks for any advice,
Neil

[Mark Wilson]

Neil,

Can't see your picture. Photobucket has destroyed many good threads on here - despite the size restrictions it is far better to persevere and use the site's photo facility.

The bit I can answer is the plate with the hole in it. It is called a shipping bracket, and was apparently used for tying down cars during transportation. I bought a replacement one, but didn't fit it after reading advice that it was of no use other than for trapping rust!

Mark

[GheeBhow]

Bother! It looked fine in preview.

Trying again:

Spring hanger.jpg (539.23 KiB) Viewed 4880 times

The lower pic looks horrific, but I don't think it's as bad as all that...

[GheeBhow]

Thanks for the info Mark. I agree - it could almost have been designed to catch mud...

[Mark Wilson]

I think your approach with the rear spring hanger repair section will be the way to go - you won't know how much you are doing until you've really cleaned off the rust. You'll need to prop the car and disconnect the rear shackles to have a good go at it. I seriously fell out with one of the major suppliers over the quality of this repair section (can't say who, but if you search you'll find one of the suppliers has a bit of a reputation for falling out with customers....). Having said that, even the better ones I obtained elsewhere needed a bit of fettling at the junction with the bootwell floor, they aren't quite the same shape as the original panel. Lot of load being transmitted here, so good welding essential.

[mogbob]

Neil
I agree with the other posters suggestions. Good clean up and assess. At the back, you're near the petrol tank , so be aware of any minor petrol leaks no matter how small. It only takes one little spark angle grinder or welder and there is no way you can move that fast to get away.
The closer to the tank you get , you might want to consider removing it for safety reasons. Plug the petrol line , wrap in rag and put a couple of plastic bags around the end with gaffer tape to exclude air.
Replace the vertical panels first , to give you something solid to weld the others to.
Bob

[GheeBhow]

Sorry for the delay replying - I changed my password and my account got suspended!

Thanks very much for the advice both of you. I've already taken the tank out - I figured that even if I was only replacing the bootwell floor it's a bit close for my liking (particularly as the tank is original and I wouldn't be surprised if it had a few pinholes - that's a different job though).

Can I just check one thing mogbob - when you say replace the vertical panels first, do you mean the inner wheelarch?

I'll let you know how I get on.
Neil

[mogbob]

Neil
Yes , the inner wheel arch . It depends how far you're going with the rust area identified but the inner wing , with the wheel removed gives
good " visual " on the job in hand , straight lines , flat surface, etc. From there you have a good metal surface to weld the other bits to it.

Make sure you mark the datum points , that you've taken measurements from , clear of the area you're cutting out. Just think it through and don't be afraid to use bits of cardboard / cereal packets templates to help you visualize how you going to put it all back together again , in sequence. That way you'll appreciate where "trimming " has to be done. A sliver at a time, it's much more difficult adding metal back on !
Bob

[GheeBhow]

Thanks mogbob, much appreciated. I cut my teeth on 'real' bodywork last year replacing the passenger footwell of my Cortina, and this will be the first bit of proper work on the Morris, so I'll go carefully. Once the weather warms up a bit!

[GheeBhow]

Hi again,

Slow progress, but I've dropped the spring and taken off the shipping bracket (or most of it anyway). There's a bit of surface rust inside, but I'm surprised how OK it seems to be overall. My question now is whether the trapezoid supporting bracket for the shackle pin tube you can see on the replacement panel would have been present on the original?

If so it has clearly rusted away on my car (you can see straight through to the back of the chassis leg), but I'm thinking that if the rust isn't worse than it appears at the moment (and I will look further) whether just making a this trapezoid part and welding that in would be a 'legit' repair. I don't want to replace the lot for the sake of it, and just doing this bit would also ensure that everything stays nicely aligned.

I'll be treating all surface rust with Bilt Hamber's Deox gel and Hydrate 80, both of which I really rate.

Thanks, once again.

Neil

[mogbob]

Neil
After studying your picture I would suggest that your proposed solution is "on the edge ".
The repair , near the tube hole , appears to have very little decent metal to cling onto. The sort of weld you could achieve welding a straight line on new clean metal is not going to happen on the visible metal in the picture and an MOT man is going to inspect it very carefully because of where it is.

My advice is to bite the bullet , weld in your existing repair panel ( photographed ) and the vertical edge of the inner wing ...see
https://www.morrisminor.org.uk/parts/69 ... right-hand. Illustration purposes , there are other suppliers.It's easy enough to replicate this out of sheet metal but for the cost you might as well buy ( ? ). Joddle the cut line on the inner wing to accept this panel. Dress the downward flange of the boot floor panel with a dolly and hammer and clean up the metal surface.

This will give you a strong basis horizontally and vertically for the repair. If everything inside is OK , what I would simplistically describe
as "the boot floor bit " then you don't need to purchase any other repair panels. Use the " length " of the repair panels to get you well clear of the rusty areas. Plenty of measurements , vertical and horizontal datum lines , so you get it set right and away you go.

The end result will justify the outcome. The road spring won't part company at the first decent pot hole or speed hump and it will look "clean and tidy ". The welding around the perimeter will cover a larger length and therefore the whole thing will be stronger on clean metal.The MOT man will be impressed and he won't bother to get out his magnifying glass to inspect a bit of a bodge job. Trying to control a car where the rear wheels have parted company with the body is quite an art and doesn't always end well.
You're only going to do it once ... so do it right first time. Stand back to admire and pat yourself on the back for a job well done.
Bob

[RobThomas]

corner.png (938.09 KiB) Viewed 4581 times

It seems that the tube runs right through and is welded at the outside, at least on this original 1949 shell.

[GheeBhow]

Thanks Rob, you're right, it's welded around the shackle pin tube exit. I would have had to carefully grind around it to take off the remnants of the shipping panel.

Bob - thanks. You're right, of course - I was being optimistic! I've got the flat panel - one way or another I was always going to need it. The boot floor is fine, so I was thinking to:

a) remove a section of the stepped panel inside that joins the boot floor to the inside of the inner wing (it forms the third part of the lengthways box section)

b) butt weld the repair panel pictured above to the boot floor - or possibly a part of it if the metal further forward is OK

c) replace the stepped panel I removed in a)

d) butt weld in the flat inner wing panel / plug weld the bottom edge & around the shackle pin tube exit

Does that sound about right? Without removing the stepped bit, access to weld the inside edge of the repair panel to the boot floor would be very restricted?

Thanks, and apologies for keeping on coming back on this - I'm really, really grateful for the advice of folk with more experience than I have.

Neil

PS - does the hole part way up the inner wing serve any purpose? You can see it in Rob's photo. No wiring passes through it so I'm surprised it's not blanked off. I was thinking of sticking a blanking plug in.

[mogbob]

Neil
Sounds like a good plan to me ! Cardboard cutouts of where everything was before you started / measurements / datum lines/ masking tape for the cut lines , etc and you'll be fine. Don't be stingy with the amount of a repair panel you use.
The people I worry about are those that just dive straight in without any planning.
Don't apologise for coming back at us for more help /guidance. You only acquire knowledge with research and experience.
I'm not sure what the smaller second hole is for , hopefully someone will enlighten / remind us.

My first patch repair, first resto I was so proud of..... the sense of achievement. Once I'd worked all around the car , I came back to my first patch. After several sheets of metal and bottles of welding gas , I looked hard at my first efforts and decided " it was rubbish ". I cut it out and did a proper repair. My standards had risen with experience.
Give it your best shot.
Bob

[ManyMinors]

I'm not sure what the smaller second hole is for , hopefully someone will enlighten / remind us.

The hole in the rear arch, behind the tie down bracket is not required on a traveller and is plugged with a rubber grommet. The traveller uses the same basic panel as a saloon however and on a saloon that hole is used for the rear light wiring

[GheeBhow]

Ha ha! Yes I was a bit like that doing the Cortina. I have -some- experience but it's limited. I'm sure I'll wince when I look underneath it in the future. But it's certainly better than it was... The thought of just cutting into it fills me with horror! I measure, agonise, visualise, prevaricate, agonise a bit more, sketch etc.

ManyMinors - thanks. I wondered if it might have been something to do with wiring for the optional sub-woofer, but rear lights wiring makes a lot more sense ;)

Neil

[ManyMinors]

The subwoofer wasn't a BMC approved option to the conservative Morris Minor buyers of the 1960s

[GheeBhow]

Hi again,

I'm making slow (but as careful as possible) progress with this, and I have another question - grateful for any advice please. I'm not planning to replace the damper pin, so only the back part of the repair section (you can see my cut in the pic below). The rust ahead of the cut is superficial surface rust which I can get rid of.

On measuring up though, the replacement panel is significantly different to the original. If I were to weld in the back edge of the repair piece in the right place, and seam weld the top edge to the boot floor edge, the shackle tube would be about 13mm further back and little more than 1mm higher than the original.

Do you think that's likely to be a problem? I'm wondering if the difference might be taken up by the shackle plates, or even if it's designed in to take account of tired springs?? With the weight off the suspension, the shackle plates when attached were at about the 7 o'clock position. So having the tube further back would put them in about the 6 o'clock position (and consequently the ride height would be slightly higher on this side of the car I think too? Maybe it would be too small to matter).

Also, the whole repair section is 6.5 mm less deep (top to bottom) than the original towards the back edge - but I can take that up by adjusting the bottom edge of the repair piece.

I'm assuming others have come across this sort of issue - I think I've seen other comments about the variation in repair pieces. Grateful for any views!

Thanks,
Neil

[taupe]

From My Rose Taupe Traveller Restoration below...If you are reasonably good at simple fabrication you will be able to do a much better repair than the awful repair panels will allow for this area..

Hi

I have made some repair sections for the rear spring hanger area on my traveller. The original areas are truly awful!! Im going to fit these after I have repaired the rear floor extension.

I was fortunate that one side of my donor car was pretty original in this area and I was able to take accurate dimensions for the replacements.

Its amazing what can be achieved by hammering around some steel angles and bar and I was able to replicate the fold radius and make the inner and outer plates for the rear spring mounting.

In the photo showing the original area and the new panel you can see I have marked the spotweld positions with a tippex pen - this is very usefull especially when you want to drill them out later.

The next area to make repair panels for is around the rear bump stops.

Here are some pics

[GheeBhow]

Thanks very much for those pics Taupe – nice work! And very helpful references. I'm glad it's not as bad as yours was!

If I had more time I’d certainly have a go at it. I’m no stranger to the angle iron approach to fabrication, and the section I’m replacing has nothing other than right angles which simplifies things. But since I’ve already got the repair piece, I’m keen to know whether that difference in dimensions is likely to cause problems if I fitted it. If it would, then I might end up going down the route of making it myself (looks like it’s 18 gauge / 1.2mm? Or possibly 16 gauge / 1.6 mm?).

Neil