Radiator blew today....

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Scottishmoggy
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Radiator blew today....

Postby Scottishmoggy » Sun May 28, 2006 5:09 pm

Hi,
just wondering if anyone knows why this would happen...We were driving along quite happily then suddenly bang...brown water splattered all over the bonnet and then steam everywhere...managed to pull off the busy road...
On close inspection the radiator has blown at the front seal near the bonnet catch...and before you say it...yes it did have enough water in...and yes the cap/pressure valve appears to be OK...
We'd only been driving for 10 minutes...!

By the way Duncan is a 1952 Series MM

Any thoughts?
cheers,
Chris 8)

Cam
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Postby Cam » Sun May 28, 2006 6:04 pm

Probably internal corrosion that has eventually given way until it let water out.

Take the radiator off and get it pressure checked and repaired.

Scottishmoggy
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Postby Scottishmoggy » Sun May 28, 2006 6:07 pm

Hi Cam,
wouldn't it be easier to get a replacement...the seam is gapping...so don't think pressure checking will help... :oops:

Onne
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Postby Onne » Sun May 28, 2006 6:14 pm

Have it recored. That way you keep both tanks. Then you get a new core, and they solder the old tanks to it.

I know, it's me job!
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Cam
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Postby Cam » Sun May 28, 2006 7:03 pm

Scottishmoggy wrote:Hi Cam,
wouldn't it be easier to get a replacement
Yes, of course, and if you can afford to do so then go for it!
...the seam is gapping...so don't think pressure checking will help... :oops:
Well, I did say pressure testing and repair, so if it's visibly gapped then that will be your problem of course. In your initial post you did not seem to know what was wrong, so that's why I suggested the pressure testing also.

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Postby bmcecosse » Sun May 28, 2006 7:24 pm

But you have to wonder why there was a 'bang' ? To get that would suggest a sudden release of high pressure. I wonder if the head gasket has blown into the water-ways.
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Postby Onne » Sun May 28, 2006 8:02 pm

And with the sidevalve, one would not expect high pressures, even if it is fitted with a waterpump.
Onne van der S. MMOCno 60520 Moderator
2dr 1971 White DAF 55 (with hopefully a 1600cc engine soon)
2dr 1973 Bergina (DAF 44)
2dr Estate 1975 DAF 46 in red
2dr saloon 1972 DAF 44 in Mimosa

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Postby wimor » Sun May 28, 2006 8:16 pm

...brown water splattered all over the bonnet
And don’t forget after replacements to fill up with a good anti freeze, with corrosion protection. When it’s highly polluted, you must renew the anti freeze for a little while.
Has Duncan a side valve engine? Especially the alloy water housings and the alloy dynamo mounting are sensitive for corrosion.


Greetings from Holland,

Wimor

Scottishmoggy
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Postby Scottishmoggy » Sun May 28, 2006 9:08 pm

Thanks chaps for your helpful suggestions...Cam, I thought the water was from the blown seam in the radiator...but didn't know why it should happen...Perhaps Bmcecosse has a point about the head gasket...but how would I know? :roll:

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Postby Cam » Sun May 28, 2006 9:18 pm

I seriously doubt that it's pressure related as the cap releases the pressure at 4 pounds. Is the cap in good condition and thhe 'spring' not sticking? If it has blown out the seam then the cap would have to be stuck.

Scottishmoggy
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Postby Scottishmoggy » Sun May 28, 2006 9:23 pm

The cap seemed to be ok and not sticking...but what the point that Bmcecosse is making about the head gasket?
As you can guess...I'm pretty inexperienced when it comes to cars...just love driving them....

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Postby Onne » Sun May 28, 2006 10:22 pm

check both the oil and the water for traces of either fluid. How was the oil pressure, just before "the accident"?
Did you have proper coolant in the rad, or just plain water? And if it was indeed water, how cold was it the night before?

How long have you had that radiator btw? Sometimes the soldering tin isn't as strong on all places
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Postby wimor » Sun May 28, 2006 10:22 pm

...but what the point that Bmcecosse is making about the head gasket?
You can make an easy check. Fill the cooling system. Don’t place the cap. Start the engine and check the water through the filler neck. When you see the water clear and constant bubbled in the radiator than you have a head gasket problem.

Greetings from Holland,

Wimor

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Postby rayofleamington » Sun May 28, 2006 10:59 pm

You can make an easy check. Fill the cooling system. Don’t place the cap. Start the engine and check the water through the filler neck. When you see the water clear and constant bubbled in the radiator than you have a head gasket problem.
You'll need to get the radiator fixed before checking for a failed headgasket 'bubbles' in the water. However you need to get the rad fixed regardless, so to check for bubbles coming into the rad when it is all assembled will hopefully answer that one as 'no' (not 100% guaranteed though)

The radiator could have failed like that due to an age related or quality related problem without anything else being to blame.
On the flip side there could be a few things going on that added to the problem.

It would not hurt to renew the rad cap anyway. The minor is meant to be fairly low pressure, but if someone had used a different cap it could be at much higher pressure.

Whilst it is 'in bits' it is an ideal opportunity to flush out the entire cooling system. (basicaly just run a hose pipe into the engine until it runs out clear, then reverse the direction until clear again, then do it a few more times... And then the same by holding the hse pipe on the endo of the heater hose, and then the other heater hose). The cooling system and heater will work a lot better if they are cleaned out! If the car has been run without a good antifreeze the block will corrode (good antifreeze has corrosion-inhibitors) and the rust swims around in the water until it causes sludge/deposits/blockages.

If the thermostat had stuck, the engine could get very hot causing violent boiling - was there any 'glugging' and 'spitting/fizzing' when it failed? Checking the thermostat is easy (watch it open and close when you heat a pan of water to boiling and cool down afterwards) but removing and refitting the thermostat housing can be a pig of a job. The simpler way to check is to run the car from cold - the top hose should not get hot to start with and after the engine is hot the thermostat should open and the top hose will get hot fairly quickly. It is much harder to spot if the thermostat is struggling to open but when it is hot you should be able to see a nice steady flow from the engine into the radiator (looking through the filler cap) - and when you rev the car up you should see a nice increase in flow into the rad.
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where to break down next?
2013... managed to seize my 1275 just by driving it round the block :(

Scottishmoggy
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Postby Scottishmoggy » Mon May 29, 2006 9:42 am

Thanks again chaps for your helpful comments...what I need to do is get a replacemnet radiator...and then see if the head gasket is causing a problem...
I've checked out suppliers of re-con radiators...do I need a specific one for sidevalve...My Pitman's Morris minor book makes no mention of the cooling system...!
There is one advertised on ebay...for around £90 plus p&p and they'll give you £25 for the old one ...
Any suggestions...
cheers,
Chris 8) and a 'sad' Duncan :cry:

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ebay rads

Postby e-minor » Mon May 29, 2006 10:22 am

I had a good radiator from ebay for a fiver and another for the guy to post it £10 all in ....sod £90 if you were closer i have a spare .
..

e-minor

fife

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Postby rayofleamington » Mon May 29, 2006 11:25 am

do I need a specific one for sidevalve...My Pitman's Morris minor book makes no mention of the cooling system...!
I'm pretty sure MM and SII had the same rad (someone will correct me if I'm wrong). These early radiators have a different header tank, but apart from how it looks to a knowledgable purist they are fully interchangeable.
Ray. MMOC#47368. Forum moderator.

Jan 06: The Minor SII Africa adventure: http://www.minor-detour.com
Oct 06: back from Dresden with my Trabant 601 Kombi
Jan 07: back from a month thru North Africa (via Timbuktu) in a S3 Landy
June 07 - back from Zwickau Trabi Treffen
Aug 07 & Aug 08 - back from the Lands End to Orkney in 71 pickup
Sept 2010 - finally gave up breaking down in a SII Landy...
where to break down next?
2013... managed to seize my 1275 just by driving it round the block :(

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Postby Onne » Mon May 29, 2006 6:18 pm

Series II and MM do NOT have the same one! The MM has a much larger top tank
The series II had the round top tank, the 1000 the smallest of the three, with a more flat top tank. The last two share their cooling block
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2dr 1973 Bergina (DAF 44)
2dr Estate 1975 DAF 46 in red
2dr saloon 1972 DAF 44 in Mimosa

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Postby wimor » Mon May 29, 2006 6:37 pm

The side valve engines have a different radiator. The photo is from a side valve radiator from 1952. The overhead valve engines have the hose pipe connection on the other side.


Image

Greetings from Holland,

Wimor

rayofleamington
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Postby rayofleamington » Mon May 29, 2006 7:56 pm

Series II and MM do NOT have the same one!
Ah well - you live and learn :lol:
Anyway I was right about the early radiators being different, although not the same as the SII. The SII radiators have different plumbing but can be interchanged with Minor 1000 if you use the later style plumbing parts.

It may well be worth looking for a re-core then you'll have a radiator that works like new.


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