Prewarming the engine?

[JimK]

Hi folks, long time no posting here.

Our Traveller has always been a bit reluctant to start on cold or damp mornings, and now I'm away most of the time with the modern the missus needs her car to start. We replaced the battery with a much bigger one, as the old one was struggling when it got cold.

I've thought about getting a paraffin-fueled greenhouse heater in the garage to keep it a bit warmer, and it occurred to me that people used to leave these things under the engine. Anybody do that now? Any reason why I shouldn't?

[bmcecosse]

As long as she remembers to take it out! Really shouldn't be necessary. If HT leads/plugs etc are in tip top order - good battery and starter motor ok - it should spring into life!
I did once have a similar problem - when we had a Landy - and it was Mrs BMC's every day car - and I was away quite a lot (in USA!). It HAD to start - even in dead of winter - so i added another 12 volt battery - in series with the original in the circuit to the starter! That started it ok - EVERY time! Even in the coldest winter for a long time - much as we have now!! I had a system of solenoids that pulled it in for starting - and a relay that connected it in parallel with the main battery for charging - when the engine was running. It all worked very well - until one day the Landy got a front wheel puncture - right on a blind bend - on a narrow road........... It was sold shortly after.

[alanworland]

Don't see why not! I think it's the idea of putting a fire under your car that puts people off!
I have in our cars the Kenlowe Hotstart fitted - piped into the heater circuit it's a 3Kw heater and pump which heats and circulates the water in the block circuit, but doesn't get hot enough to open the thermostat.
Highly recommended!

[alanworland]

Just remembered I have of photo which shows it - behind the windscreen bottle!

[JimK]

It turns over absolutely fine, but doesn't fire. A hoosh of WD40 into the dizzy helps but it's still reluctant to fire, and the missus can't fiddle around under the bonnet when she has loaded the boys into the car.

It always fires right on the button when the weather is warmer, so I assumed the problem is condensation in the dizzy and that keeping it warmer might help.

Not really a fire under the car - there's no open flame involved.

[bmcecosse]

I would get a new dizzy cap - and new rotor arm. WD40 in the dizzy cap like that has been know to EXPLODE ! Take care.

You could of course go the 'ballast ignition ' route that is used on Minis. They use a low ohms (~ 1.5) coil which is normally fed with only 9 volts through a 'ballast' ignition wire. But when starting - a relay brings in a direct feed to the coil straight from the battery. Since the battery volts will have dropped to ~ 9 anyway when churning the starter - the coil still operates at full whack - and the engine gets full sparks. On a normal 12 volt ignition - the 12 volt coil struggles on the 9 volts from the flagging battery - and so the result is poor HT sparks - just when they need to be at their best.

[simmitc]

Is the carb adjusted correctly? Obvious thought is that cold weather needs a choke, and if it isn't set up properly it may not be providing a rich enough mixture. Also, have you checked compression?

[JimK]

Carb setup might be a possibility, though once it's started and chugged for ten seconds or so it runs quite nicely.

[mike.perry]

You may find that it starts easier on the handle, although you would have a hard time convincing the missus. This is because all the battery power goes into the spark instead of being used to churn the starter motor around

[Jefftav]

Is your better half really likely to mess on with a parrifin heater? I'd spend my time sorting out the starting issue as the remedy is probably very straight forward (dissy cap, carb, good battery) to make sure your Morris starts every time.

[autolycus]

I wouldn't use a paraffin heater for this purpose. It produces warm, moist air which will cause condensation on cold engine parts. I'd get the basics of the ignition and fuel systems right, and if you still need some warmth, 15 minutes of an electric fan heater will only cost a few pence, and will dry things rather than make them wetter. A water pre-heater, like Alan recommends, would be even better, if she remembers to unplug it. I stick a fan heater inside the car for ten minutes on very cold mornings to defrost it.

The other important thing, and probably the most difficult of all, is to teach your lady wife how to use the choke. There must be women somewhere who have mastered it, but they're few and far between.

Kevin

[JimK]

The engine doesn't have that connector thing for a handle, so no dice there. In any case, it's a brand-new massive battery, and charging it overnight doesn't help the car start.

I agree, Jeff, about sorting the starting issue, but I might spend all weekend trying to fix it (assuming the spares order arrives) and be no further foward when I have to return north on sunday evening. And my past record is that every time I've ever tried adjusting a carb I've made something worse...

So, I'd like to find out why it doesn't start well when cold, but as I know it starts when warm I thought I might warm it. The heater can be left burning all week if necessary.

[rayofleamington]

A parrafin heater will produce more humidity...

If the car is in the garage I'd expect it to start absolutely fine even at -10°C so my guess would be a problem with the choke fuelling or a weak spark.

[JimK]

The car is in one of those tarpaulin shelters rather than a proper garage, and had frost all over it this morning. It's also 50 yards from the house so plugging anything in is not possible.

Thanks for the advice, but as the next spare time I have is in July I think I'll have to get a chap in to look at it.

[rayofleamington]

The car is in one of those tarpaulin shelters rather than a proper garage, and had frost all over it this morning. It's also 50 yards from the house so plugging anything in is not possible.

You confused me when you said 'garage' but then I figured you could have rented one nearby. Despite the lack of garage I'm still jealous of your beautiful house and sizeable garden / drive etc... ;-)

[Jefftav]

Jim, Do the simple things - Make sure HT leads are clean, the dissy cap is usually available from local factors so you could replace this, clean or replace the rotor arm and also check that the choke cable does work at the carb end. Also a wipe/spray over the leads with WD40 might help to keep out moisture but really shouldn't need this.

Leave the carb to see how it goes then start to worry about adjusting this.

[8009STEVE]

Just to help out on really cold mornings i fire the space heater at the front.

[M25VAN]

I want a Kenlowe Hotstart.
In the meantime I have a jumpstart unit. It certainly helps the battery to spin the starter when it is cold and keeps the volts up. My starter warranty is void if you try to operate it with low volts (around 9V). Doesn't this also stuff the battery as well? Something to do with the current drawn rising as the volts drop.
I've got some of those Anderson connectors for the jumpstart so I don't even have to lift the bonnet to get a boost, it's connected from inside the car.
What about using one of those small UPS type 12v batteries to feed the ignition while the main battery is occupied with supplying the starter?

[bmcecosse]

Would seem easier to just convert to ballast ignition. But yes - an independent 12 volt feed to the ignition would obviously help. Need a two way switch - up for starting - let it run up for a few seconds, and then flip the switch down to the 'normal' position for running.

[martinf]

hello i would start with the earth strap,make sure its in good condition and secure as well as clean,if theres any resistance in this it will play havoc with the starting,my old landy was the same,clean the ht connections at the distributer cap and use a small ammount of vasalene,wd drys out too quickly,and make sure the points and condenser are good,as well as the choke fully oparating when pulled from inside,my dad had one of those parrafin heaters he swore by it!