Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

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MarkyB
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Post by MarkyB »

:oops:

"Once you break something you will see how it was put together"
bmcecosse
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Post by bmcecosse »

Most DO seem to have an external metal sleeve...... One side of my car has a metalastic (not fitted by me) - and from memory it has an external sleeve.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=metal ... 66&bih=624
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MarkyB
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Post by MarkyB »

Thanks Roy, I think mines the same but I'm in no hurry to check it.
Still got some brain cells functioning, phew :)

"Once you break something you will see how it was put together"
M25VAN
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Post by M25VAN »

This could be good news then, does anybody have a part number for this alternative type metallastic bush with the outer metal sleeve?
MarkyB
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Post by MarkyB »

Robush seem to have taken over the Metalastik brand name.
http://www.robush.co.uk/

Large PDF of what they have in stock;
http://www.robush.co.uk/pdf/1519%20Robush.pdf

Bushes - VP, UD, Spherilastik looks like the right section. Page 10 onwards.

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philthehill
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Post by philthehill »

I have checked the size of the available off the shelf bushes from robush and the sizes do not match. Either the bolt hole is too small or the OD is to large or the length is not long enough. It looks as if any bush would have to specially made.
The ratio between the inner and outer dimensions of the bush would preclude having an acceptable amount of rubber between the inner and outer sleeves. If you look at the robush bushes listed you will see what I mean in that they all have more rubber than can be fitted in the required Minor bush This was alluded to by taupe in an earlier post.

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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Post by mike.perry »

My metalastic bushes fitted many years go have metal outer cases and were still there last time I looked
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bmcecosse
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Post by bmcecosse »

Thanks for the link - I haven't studied it closely - but if we can find an o/d that fits (perhaps with a slight easing of the eyebolt bore) and length that can be shortened to suit - it wouldn't be too difficult to make up slightly larger pins if that's what is required.
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don58van
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Post by don58van »

...if we can find an o/d that fits (perhaps with a slight easing of the eyebolt bore) and length that can be shortened to suit
The rubber bushes and the poly ones are in two halves. So... there shouldn't be a problem with using two shorter robushes per eyebolt. That might be a solution if a full length one can't be found. What do you think?

Cheers
Don
philthehill
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Post by philthehill »

Whilst it is a good idea to use two bushes the problem is that as reported in my post above there is not a bush suitable either to use off the shelf or can be modified.
The nearest sizes are as follows:

Bush No 1..............12.70 ID x 25.4 OD x 16.51 L

Bush No 2..............12.80 ID x 38.10 OD x 50.8 L

Bush No 3..............15 ID x 35 OD x 30 L

No matter what you do they will not fit

A standard poly bush is 22mm diameter (I have measured several from several sources) where it fits into the eye bolt x 18mm long where it fits into the eye bolt.

The eye bolt pin is 1/2" or 27.70mm.
The distance between the thick and thin arm on the Morris is 45mm or 1 13/16".

Robush metalastic bush No 1 will fit the pin but not the eye in that it is 3.4mm larger than the eye if you take the poly bushes as the standard and the poly bushes are usually a firm fit into the eye. I take on board BMC suggestion regarding opening up the eye but that is not a job for everyone.

Bush No2 will not fit.
Bush No3 will not fit.

Even if you open up the eye bolt and fit two bushes there will not be enough bush in the eye to give a satisfactory solution as there will have to be an 12mm internal gap between the bushes to give the 45mm overall length. Two No1 bushes are just over 33mm in total. If you have them pressed together you will still have to make up the gap either side of the two bushes.

I only wish that I could make the bushes fit but from the measurements on the robush site and my measurements above it aint going to work.
I am happy to be corrected but the measurements will still be the same and the conclusions will still be the same.
It is increasingly looking like a new bush will have to be made to suit if you do not want the hassle of machining the eye bolt and making up spacers.
Last edited by philthehill on Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

don58van
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Post by don58van »

Phil. Thanks for your analysis of the Robush options.

I wonder how Declan is doing with the ones he was testing. I hoped that he might have dropped in by now.

Here is my next potential solution. :wink: (OK, I know some members would say there isn't a problem)
This will solve two problems in one go.
We need someone to manufacture eyebolts that have dimensions for the eye that correspond to a reliable supply of metalastic type bushes. Note that Marina and I think the Australian Morris Majors (1960-64) have bigger diameter bushes than the Minor). Poly bushes might work better in this application with a larger circumference too (greater ability to twist).
The second potential benefit would be achieved if the eyebolts were made with longer threaded sections, so that the eyebolts could be safely packed out further from the subchassis to give neutral or even a touch of negative camber.

Oh well -- I can dream. :D

Don
philthehill
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Post by philthehill »

Don
I am glad that you have raised the subject of Marina bushes and using the Marina eye bolt. One of my photos above shows the Marina bush which has an unfitted diameter of 38mm. The Marina eye bolt is similar to the Minor but having the larger diameter bush. I do not know the availability of new Marina eye bolt bushes or the eye bolt itself. No doubt someone on here will tell us. Having run both Marina and Ital cars I do remember that the eye bolt fits vertically through the Marina chassis not horizontal like the Minor. Therefore the bolt part of the Marina eye bolt may be longer through the chassis. Because it fits vertically through the chassis and if I remember correctly the eye of the eye bolt is further from the chassis to allow bottom suspension arm movement. So if the Marina eye bolt is available (even S/H), the bushes are available, the bolt part of the eye bolt is the same we could be onto a winner and that we can have metalastic type bushes and more negative camber without any modification or packing. Have just looked again at the robush site and bush No: 13-2291-00/10-03293-01 12.8mm ID x 38.10mm OD x 73.00 OL could be adapted to suit the Marina eye bolt.
So we now need a Marina owner(s) to come up with some answers. Interesting times and I must check out some scrap yards.

Declan_Burns
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Post by Declan_Burns »

I removed the home made bushes we made in 2011 a few weeks ago. This is what I found.... so it's back to the drawing board. The urethene is not suitable for eyebolt bushes although I previously made tie bar bushes with it and they are still perfect. We have sourced a supplier in the UK for Polyurethane but they will only post within the UK. The experiment will continue.

Regards
Declan[frame]Image[/frame]


Regards
Declan
philthehill
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Post by philthehill »

Declan
Is there a simple way to reduce the OD of the rubber bush as fitted to the Marina eye bolt (picture and details in my posts above) to suit the minor eye bolt as other than the OD it is perfect in every way and would be an ideal substitute for the J4 bush; of course providing the Marina eye bolt bush is still available.

don58van
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Post by don58van »

Declan and Phil -- Heaps of praise from me and no doubt many other Minor owners for continuing the quest.

Declan--its a shame about the prototypes. I hope you can find time among all you other fascinating Minor-related projects to continue searching for metalastic replacements.

Phil -- I'm not highly technically proficient, but all I can think of to reduce the diameter of Robushes is to grind them while mounted on a lathe.

I have some (Australian) Morris Major eyebolts in the shed. I'll dig them out and have a Captain Cook (look).

Don
Declan_Burns
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Post by Declan_Burns »

Phil,
I think Don is right with grinding in the Lathe. Turning them would be difficult. I do like Don's idea of having an eyebolt made to fit the off the shelf bush with the built in spacer for the negative camber. The problem being is finding someone to do it in small batches at a reasonable cost and good quality.
Can you measure the thread on the eyebolt? I have one but it's over at my mate's who works on these projects with me-and it's snowing!
I could ask the guys at the machine shops that I have access to quote but I would need to make a drawing.
Regards
Declan


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Declan
don58van
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Post by don58van »

Declan, Phil and other interested members

Did you see this thread?
http://mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=4&t= ... lt#p446146

Yes, I think that finding a manufacturer who could do them to the required standard and a sensible price would be quite a challenge. Still, people pay hefty prices for other suspension upgrades.

I have located my (Australian) Morris Major eyebolts. I'll measure them and report soon. I have some contacts with (Australian) Marinas (lucky devils) but I know there are differences between the Oz ones and Brit ones.

Don
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Post by philthehill »

Don
Thanks for the link.
I was aware of the manufacture of eye bolts by Islip Minor and Dalgrae.
Yes it would be good if there was a manufacturer willing to produce the eye bolts but with provision to fit an off the shelf Metalastic bushes and with an extra bit of camber.
Whilst trawling through the web the other day I came across an advert for New Minor eye bolts with extra camber. Been unable to find it since. Anyone know about those eye bolts. 'UPDATE' Found the details - they were supplied by Minor Mania Ltd. Have sent them an 'e' mail enquiring as to whether still available.
Good luck with your Australian search.
My stepdaughter is in Australia and I might ask her husband who is into cars and motorbikes if he can source some eye bolts and bring them over in the spring.
'UPDATE' http://WWW.earlpart.co.uk advertise S/H Marina/Ital eye bolts. I will give them a ring on Monday and see if I can get a pair.
I had a look at some rear spring bushes (the rear bush) for a Reliant Robin and they do not seem far out. Anyone got any measurements for them so I can determine if they are suitable.
In the mean time keep up the good work and I will keep looking as well.

Declan
The eye bolt securing nut is 9/16" BSF. The thread extends about 5 mm into the tube through the chassis leg. As you will be well aware that is so the nut does not bottom out before securing the eye bolt.

Phil

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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Post by philthehill »

Update:-
I have had a reply from Alex Feigenbaum of Minor Mania Ltd regarding the additional camber eye bolts. He is going to look and see if he has any left.
I have also outlined the discussion regarding the fitting of metalastic bushes to the eye bolt and the possibility of manufacturing a new eye bolt with an eye suitable for fitting current off the shelf metalastic bushes.
I have also referred to the discussions within these posts and where he can find those discussions for additional information.
Hopefully he may come up with some answers.
Will keep you posted
Phil

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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Post by don58van »

Great work Phil

I have dug out my Morris Major front suspension bits, but I will need to disassemble them to get dimensions.

Don
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