Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

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M25VAN
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Postby M25VAN » Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:40 pm

Did a quick google image search and the Marina eyebolts look quite a bit different to the Minor ones. :(
Regarding new longer eyebolts, these people http://www.whtildesley.com/ (a while back) managed to give a quote for new swivel pins when they were in short/no supply. They didn't need a drawing but would have reverse engineered from an actual unit. They were very helpfull. I think they were involved with the Marina Walford trunnions as well.
Finally, could something be done with the top trunnion to get some extra camber? Similar to the Peter May ones for Midgets?

philthehill
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Postby philthehill » Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:23 pm

The distance between the thick and thin suspension arms of the Marina/Ital at the eye bolt end is the same as the Minor so if the Marina/Ital eye bolt could be modified it may be a solution but until we have an actual Marina/Ital eye bolt to measure/examine it still remains an idea.
If the engineering firm mentioned above could produce a modified eye bolt with a suitable eye to allow the fitment of the robush metalastic bush mentioned above and with a bit more camber as standard that would be superb.
The difference between the Minor top trunnion and the Peter May MG Midget top trunnion kit Pt No: 1.4 is that the Minor has a thread for the swivel and the MG midget just has a straight hole for the top of the king pin to pass through which is then locked off and does not turn; and another at 90 degrees to the aforementioned hole for the trunnion bushes so it is not as easy as it might appear but the idea is sound. If the Minor did not have the swivel threads and the top trunnion/bushes as it is it may have been possible to do something like the Peter May top trunnion.
Last edited by philthehill on Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:11 am, edited 1 time in total.


M25VAN
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Postby M25VAN » Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:31 pm

Thanks for the explanations, let's see what the Marina eyebolts reveal.....

philthehill
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Postby philthehill » Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:39 pm

I am hoping that Don will come up with some dimensions and photos but I will ring Earl Part on Monday and see if the Marina eye bolts listed are still available.
I note that SuperPro do a one piece bush for the Marina/Ital eye bolt Pt No: SPK1865K with inner tube which is fitted after inserting the bush into the eye. This looks to be a better bet than just a straight poly bush.
Last edited by philthehill on Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:13 am, edited 1 time in total.


bmcecosse
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Postby bmcecosse » Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:08 am

The advantage of spacing out the eyebolt is that it also increases the track slightly - every little helps !
ImageImage
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Declan_Burns
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Postby Declan_Burns » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:02 am

I have found a company here in Germany who make these bushes in small batches. The production turnaround is 20 to 30 days. I can send them an enquiry and try and get pricing. The question is how many should I ask for.
Here's a link.
http://autokultur.eshop.t-online.de/epa ... entbuchsen
Regards
Declan


Regards
Declan

philthehill
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Postby philthehill » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:12 am

Declan
If the final product is the same as the J4 bush but shortened to 1 13/16" you can put me down for qty 4.
Thanks for your efforts.
Phil
Last edited by philthehill on Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.


philthehill
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Postby philthehill » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:13 am

I have spoken this morning with Earl Part and they say that they can find me two S/H Marina/Ital eye bolts.
I will wait until I have heard from Don, Minor Mania Ltd and Declan before purchasing the eye bolts because at £25 each plus P&P plus VAT it is too much to pay out if they cannot be adapted or modified to suit the Minor. In the mean time I will see if I can examine a Marina/Ital to form a better view as to whether they are suitable.
The search goes on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


don58van
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Postby don58van » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:15 am

Hi Declan

I would like a couple of sets and I could probably find numerous buyers here in Oz but it would be price sensitive. Price would no doubt depend very much on volume.

All:
The Australian Morris Major eyebolts are looking promising. I will be along with measurements soon.

Cheers
Don

philthehill
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Postby philthehill » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:35 am

Don
Thanks for your efforts.
Can you include some photos as well?
Phil


Declan_Burns
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Postby Declan_Burns » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:36 am

I have sent them an enquiry based on 40 to 50 pieces.
Preliminary dimensions
OD 22.5mm
ID 13mm
Length 46mm
Let's see if and what their reaction is.
Regards
Declan


Regards
Declan

philthehill
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Postby philthehill » Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:05 pm

As an aside and which may up the demand for Declan's bushes:-
The bushes fitted to the rear spring eyes (Pt No: SUS720) are the same as those (Pt No: SUS104) fitted to the front suspension eye bolt. The shackle pin (Pt No:- SUS719) is also the same as the front eye bolt pin (SUS105). Why these same parts have a different number I do not know! If Declan manages to get the bushes manufactured they should be suitable for fitting to the rear springs.


Declan_Burns
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Postby Declan_Burns » Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:22 pm

I got some pricing in this afternoon-they were very quick to respond. It is no problem to them to make them up.They will however require the exact dimensions to 1/100 mm so somebody would have to send me a bush so I can pass it on to them. They have quoted me a price of between 12.95€ and 14.95€ per bush. It varies depending on the shore hardness of the rubber. This price would be based on shore hardness 55° grade A and an order of 50 pieces. I assume that is without VAT but will find out.
Regards
Declan


Regards
Declan

philthehill
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Postby philthehill » Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:15 pm

Declan
I can send you my singleton J4 bush if you PM me with your address.
Of course that bush will need shortening to 1 13/16" or metric equivalent. The Marina bush is 45.20mm in length.
All other measurements of the J4 bush are as required.
They should be able to determine the shore hardness from the bush supplied.
I would suggest a chamfer on each end of rubber as per the J4 bush providing that the rubber is no shorter than the length of the eye bolt hole.

Phil


Declan_Burns
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Postby Declan_Burns » Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:02 am

Phil,
You mentioned that the J4 bush has an ID of 13mm. I measured the eyebolt pin at 12.62mm with the micrometer. I think that a custom built bush should be a snug fit. Does your bush have the metal outer sleeve? I would like to see if this is worthwhile and how many people would be interested as there is a financial aspect involved.
Regards
Declan


Regards
Declan

MarkyB
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Postby MarkyB » Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:26 am

Where is the next price point for these, 100 items?
Maybe some parts suppliers would like to place an order too?

"Once you break something you will see how it was put together"

philthehill
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Postby philthehill » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:03 am

Declan
I have measured the ID of the bush again with a digital mike and I get 12.77mm. The pin (Pt No SUS105) is 1/2" diameter as original spec. I have tried a Dormer 1/2" drill through the centre of the bush and it is a reasonably snug fit and a fit that I would not reject. I am confident that the original fitment J4 bolt was 1/2". So yes the ID should be a loose 1/2" or 12.77mm and not 13mm.
The bush does not have an outer metal sleeve and was originally just a press fit into the J4 suspension eye. I consider that using the original Minor eye bolt there is inadequate room within the eye to have an outer sleeve on the bush. The inner sleeve has a 2mm wall and if a 2mm (or thinner) walled outer tube was fitted there would be no room for the matalastic to be fitted.
I have found that quite a few suspension bushes for UK vehicles do not/did not have an outer sleeve fitted as original equipment.
Phil
Last edited by philthehill on Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.


don58van
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Postby don58van » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:12 am

Declan

I have a couple of new J4 metalastics that I can use to confirm dimensions if you wish (I have good calipers).

Phil, Declan and others:
There is good news and not so good news.
The good news is that the Morris Major eyebolt seems to have the characteristics we are looking for (based on the samples I have to hand).

1) The fulcrum section is the same width as the Minor (within .05mm) :D :D
2) The bore of the fulcrum is bigger than the Minor (27.0mm vs 22.0mm ) :D
3) Pivot (through the bushes) is thicker at 17.5mm vs 12.5 for the Minor :) We have the choice of two sizes.
4) The OD of the bolt is the same :D
5) The threaded section is just a little shorter on the Major (28.0mm vs 31.2mm) :)
6) Big drum roll... The overall length of the bolt is 70mm vs 64.5mm for the Minor :D :D :D
7) The centreline of the pivot pin is offset from the shoulder of the bush housing is the same. That is, when mounted onto the chassis rail, the centreline of the pin is offset from the chassis exactly the same amount. So there will be no change in camber simply by changing to the Major bolt.

From 2) and 3), I calculate that the walls of the bush are a little thicker for the Major (or much thicker if a Minor pivot pin is used). This may mean that poly bushes will work better because of greater potential for flexure and twist within the walls.

And the bad news:
Major eyebolts won't be easy to find. Compared with Minors, very few Oz Majors were built. It is a model unique to Oz. Some have been preserved but the vast majority have been scrapped. When scrapped, Minor fans grab the front brakes (similar to the 'W' brakes), the wheels (same as the Minor but 1/2" wider, some with safety beads) and the diff (some 4.22--rare in Oz or 3.9). As far as I can deduce, eyebolts aren't something that are typically retained.

Phil
I haven't taken photos yet, but will do.

Cheers
Don

Edited on 11/12 to correct the position of the decimal points in 2) 3) and 5). I shouldn't do this stuff when I am lying in bed late at night! :oops:
Last edited by don58van on Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

philthehill
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Postby philthehill » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:11 pm

Don
Thanks for the info contained in the post above.
I will digest and get back to you.

I have just ordered a negative camber eye bolt kit from Minor Mania Ltd.
I will report details when received.

Phil


philthehill
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Postby philthehill » Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:40 pm

Don
I will go through the points one by one as you have listed.

1. Good.
2. Not quite sure what your measurement mean. Both J4 and Marina/Ital have a bush bore/ID of 12.77mm.
3. Again...................................................The pin on the Minor/J4/Marina/Ital are 1/2" OD.
4. Good.
5. Should be no problem.
6. Good.
7. Not so good. I was hoping that it would be of benefit as if I remember correctly the Marina/Ital eye bolt is fitted
vertically into the chassis and not horizontally as the Minor. The chassis legs on the Marina/Ital must be further apart!
We would have the same problem over her in the UK in obtaining the Marina/Ital eye bolt in sufficient number to be of benefit. The longer bolt would allow some packing between the eye bolt and the chassis and a metalastic bush is available to suit the eye bolt from robush (Pt No in my post above).
As you can see from my post above I have purchased a negative camber eye bolt kit from Minor Mania Ltd (£85 plus VAT). He has not sold any of these kits for several years so they have dropped off the radar in the Minor world . Therefore he was very surprised at my enquiry and asked where I had found out about them. Minor Mania Ltd had these kits specially made and there are a couple still on the shelf. I did ask him if it was possible to get some more made and he said he would make some enquiries but I do not know how long it will take for an answer.
As an aside I have had Minor Mania Ltd hard plastic bushes fitted to the eye bolts on my competition Minor for many years but they would not be suitable for normal road use. The eye bolts have been fitted with grease nipples so those bushes get regular greasing.
As soon as the negative camber kit comes I will post details on here.
I would still like to see some photos of your eye bolts.
Phil



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