Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

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philthehill
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Postby philthehill » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:30 pm

Don
Your item No 2 above is now making sense. 22mm is the ID of the Minor eye bolt and into which the bush fits.
My Marina/Ital bush though has an unfitted OD of 33.8mm and has the Pt No: 13 OW15464-AR moulded into it. You quote 27mm ID for the Morris Major eye bolt!
The same with item No 3 again now making sense.
It is late here but should be about 09:45 AM where you are (as I write) so have a g-day.
Phil


Declan_Burns
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Postby Declan_Burns » Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:18 am

I measured the original eyebolt pin and it was 12.70mm compared to the way off repro which was 12.62mm. The pins on the right are, if my memory serves me correctly, from the rear suspension and measure 12.98mm. They could however be from the teflon bushes that I tested some years back. The lengths (non threaded part) are all very similar at 44.7mm.

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Declan[frame]Image[/frame]


Regards
Declan

don58van
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Postby don58van » Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:31 am

Here are the photos I promised.
They are self-explanatory, I hope.[frame]Image[/frame][frame]Image[/frame]

Cheers
Don

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philthehill
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Postby philthehill » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:06 pm

Don
Many thanks for the pictures.
You have confirmed what I thought once you gave the measurements for the Morris Major eye bolt bush.
The eye bolt is different on the Marina/Ital to the Morris Major.
Having now found the Marina/Ital workshop manual I am better placed to compare like for like.
I have attached a drawing from the workshop manual to illustrate the difference.
As you can see from the illustration the offset from the chassis is considerable and should give plenty of camber (possibly too much). It may be possible to machine the eye bolt to suit if required.
I am awaiting the delivery of the negative camber eye bolts from Minor Mania and when they arrive I will compare with the Marina eye bolts. I have the bush Item 7 of the illustration and it can be seen that the bush does not have an outer metal sleeve.
A robush metalastic bush part number above is available for this eye bolt (item No 6) but the availability of the eye bolt is an unknown quantity but have been offered two from Earl Part.
Phil[frame]Image[/frame]


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philthehill
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Postby philthehill » Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:00 pm

I have now received the negative camber eye bolts from Minor Mania Ltd.
Just what we are after and have been discussing above. The pin through the chassis leg is 74mm long (excluding thread)against the 64.5mm (excluding thread) of the Minor O/E eye bolt and comes with spacers to give either 2, 3 or 4 degree negative camber. They are very similar to the ones made by dalgrae and Islip Minor. The horse shoe washers could always be replaced with complete circle ones to the same thickness to alleviate retention of crud.
I do not know how many negative camber kits Minor Mania Ltd have on the shelf but if you want a set I would grab a set now.
I may even get a spare set myself!
If there is enough demand production of the negative camber eye bolt may start again.
I know that they may be expensive at £85 plus VAT but I doubt that you could get them made for that.
I will post photos of the negative camber kit later this evening and here they are.
All we need now is for Declan to come up with the metalastic bushes and we will be in business as they say[frame]Image[/frame]


don58van
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Postby don58van » Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:41 am

Hi Phil and others

They are nice bits of machining.

For my purposes, I will be happy just to get neutral camber, let alone 2, 3 or 4 degrees of negative.

Roy mentioned somewhere that even with some negative camber in the resting position, the suspension goes positive camber in bump (I hope I haven't misquoted you Roy). Do you know anything about this? It would be interesting to know how much negative camber at rest is needed to stop it going positive in full bump.

It seems that when Declan comes up with a good deal on a special run of metalastics, we will have reached the end of our quest. :D

I suppose though, it would be interesting to get some user reports after trial periods.

Cheers
Don

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philthehill
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Postby philthehill » Sat Dec 14, 2013 12:20 pm

Don
Yes I am more than happy with the machining.
bmc is right in that the suspension when raised i.e. goes over a bump the positive camber increases. This is due to the factory set up of the suspension.
Of course the lower the suspension the thicker the spacer required between the eye bolt and the chassis to return the camber to something like original.
The three different thickness spacer allow for personal preference regarding camber.
On my Minor I have only used a 1/8" square spacer plate one side and two 1/8" square plates the other to get 1 degree negative camber at rest. The camber was checked with a Dunlop caster/camber gauge to ensure accuracy. Therefore packing out equally either side between the chassis and the eye bolt does not mean the same camber either side.
I will try the Minor Mania Ltd eye bolts with the thin spacer (2 degree) but still retain the original 1/8" packing pieces (they also spread the load around the eye bolt) so I should have 3 degree negative camber at rest.
These eye bolts from Minor Mania Ltd are some the last of his stock so unless there is a surge in interest and they decide to manufacture some more they will be gone for ever and we will be back to searching again.
Phil


Declan_Burns
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Postby Declan_Burns » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:22 am

Sombody needs to finalize the dimensions of the bush, get the numbers up and come up with a financial plan. :D
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Declan


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philthehill
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Postby philthehill » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:54 am

Declan
These are the dimensions of the required bush for the Minor eye bolt.

Length.......................................................................45.79mm

Bush diameter unfitted...................................................22.74mm

Internal diameter of metal tube through centre of bush...........12.77mm

Wall thickness of metal tube............................................2.00mm

The diameter of the pin that goes through the bush................12.62mm

Of course these are the metric dimension's of the O/E J4 bush which was manufactured to imperial specification.

Additionally is the tube that goes through the centre of the J4 bush available to the production company in the sizes quoted above to suit the 12.62mm diameter pin? 13mm ID tube is too large and 12.5mm ID tube is too small.

Whilst there are plenty of views regarding this thread there has so far been little interest/commitment in saying yes I/we will have ex number of bushes. This may be because at the moment Poly Bushes are so easily available and easy to fit; also they have had plenty of promotion and publicity.

Not quite sure where this goes next!


don58van
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Postby don58van » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:22 am

All

I have seen quite a few comments here and elsewhere where people complain about harshness and squeaking with poly bushes (and to be fair, many who are perfectly happy with them). I'm sure there must be many who would like a real alternative (the currently available rubber ones not being a satisfactory choice). It will probably come down to price--will metalastics be competitive with poly?

Would try metalastic bushes if they were roughly comparable price-wise to poly bushes? Yes, I'm asking YOU.

Cheers
Don

Declan_Burns
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Postby Declan_Burns » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:48 am

Phil,
I'm not so sure the 12.62mm is correct. I measured the original at 12.7mm. The 12.52 is repro rubbish.
I'll make a CAD drawing.
Regards
Declan


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philthehill
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Postby philthehill » Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:56 pm

Declan
We have a quandary!

I have measured several NOS original pins with the BSF threads and they range from 12.62mm OD to 12.65mm OD.
I have also measured several repro pins with the UNF threads and they all measured 12.7mm OD.
The pin is supposed to be 1/2" or 12.7mm.
The pin OD is not the problem though because all the pins we purchase now are repros and so cannot guarantee the pin will be 12.7mm as you have found. The small differences in the OD of the pin would not make for a problem with the rubber or poly bush. I have tried the NOS and repro pins in poly bushes from different suppliers and the difference in fit is noticeable. So we not only have different OD sized pins but different ID sized poly bushes. Conclusion ignore the pin OD and just go for the 12.77mm ID tube. And of course a 12.7 mm(1/2") pin will not fit a 12.7mm (1/2") hole so the ID of the tube has to be larger.
If I sound as if I am speaking to the converted my apologies but we have a larger audience than just you and me.

To answer Dons question regarding pricing - disregarding the VAT and at todays exchange rate 1.1856 Euro = 1 Pound the rubber or cheaper version of the poly bush is cheaper than the manufacturing price quoted but if you purchase top quality Poly Bushs the manufacturing price quoted is comparable or even slightly cheaper. And of course the longevity of the Metalastic bush is under no doubt as it is just about 'Fit and Forget'. I know that good mileages have been reported for Poly Bushes but there have also been some poor results. So you pays your money and you takes your chance.

Phil


Matt
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Postby Matt » Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:15 pm

philthehill wrote:II do not know how many negative camber kits Minor Mania Ltd have on the shelf but if you want a set I would grab a set now.
They have 2 sets left - just spoken to them :)

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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Postby philthehill » Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:28 pm

Matt
Is that before you bought a set or after?
Phil


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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Postby Matt » Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:58 pm

After

M25VAN
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Postby M25VAN » Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:46 pm

While I was browsing today I found a ref to J4 bushes here on the Birmingham Morris Centre price list, about half way down.

http://www.jagspares.co.uk/Morris/Pricelists/CAT.htm

Are these what we are looking for?

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philthehill
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Postby philthehill » Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:43 pm

M25van
Well spotted and on the face of it yes.
Now Morris Minor Centre (Birmingham) part of the DMG.
They appear to have stock @ £6.30 each inc VAT. Part No: J4.
I have ordered qty 3 as I already have one genuine J4 bush to compare against.
As soon as they arrive I will post details on here.
Thanks again.
Phil


don58van
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Postby don58van » Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:15 am

Phil

PM sent.

Don

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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Postby M25VAN » Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:18 am

Yoyr parts department don't hang about Phil! :) It will be interesting to see if this is an old batch they have or if they have a source of supply.

Declan_Burns
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Re: Fitting metalastic eyebolt bushes

Postby Declan_Burns » Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:20 am

Yes, it would be interesting to find out if they have a source as it would make life a lot easier.
I'll post up the CAD drawing according to the measurements discussed later today as soon as I get a bit of time.
Regards
Declan


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